WEBVTT

NOTE duration:"02:31:51.0400000"

NOTE recognizability:0.819

NOTE language:en-us

NOTE Confidence: 0.67406094

00:00:02.060 --> 00:00:05.875
Account of how I got to interview Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.67406094

00:00:05.880 --> 00:00:07.364
That's what I had in mind because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7587974

00:00:13.550 --> 00:00:14.370
Alright.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747055594

00:00:16.900 --> 00:00:20.590
My name is Lewis Marchiafava and I'm

NOTE Confidence: 0.747055594

00:00:20.590 --> 00:00:26.260
interviewing doctor James M Boeing Bowen.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747055594

00:00:26.260 --> 00:00:29.824
And the interview is being sponsored

NOTE Confidence: 0.747055594

00:00:29.824 --> 00:00:33.020
by MD Anderson Cancer Center.

NOTE Confidence: 0.854979483333333

00:00:35.110 --> 00:00:38.620
Today is March 27th, 2000.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81777888

00:00:41.500 --> 00:00:43.216
I am pronouncing your name correctly,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81777888

00:00:43.220 --> 00:00:48.640
Owen. Doctor Bowen, I'd like to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81777888

00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:52.348
First, begin the interview by obtaining

NOTE Confidence: 0.81777888

00:00:52.348 --> 00:00:55.160
some background information. Concerning.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:00:58.650 --> 00:01:02.658
What led up to your employment?

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:02.660 --> 00:01:06.116
And your years at MD Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.804
first I I was curious in reading

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:09.804 --> 00:01:11.520
your background information,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:13.490
are there any other members

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:13.490 --> 00:01:15.460
of your family involved in?

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:15.460 --> 00:01:17.900
Biochemistry or medical science?

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:17.900 --> 00:01:21.350
Well, my late brother Bob.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:21.350 --> 00:01:24.787
Who is a physicist and analytical chemist,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:24.790 --> 00:01:28.750
spent his entire career with General

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:28.750 --> 00:01:31.780
Electric medical systems working on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:34.565
The development and manufacturer of

NOTE Confidence: 0.81974279

00:01:34.565 --> 00:01:37.060
medical radiological devices, so yes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:41.150
My own, my only sibling,

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:41.150 --> 00:01:46.270
my brother and I both spent our careers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:46.270 --> 00:01:48.208
Very close to a medical field,

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:48.210 --> 00:01:50.590
I and academics and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:50.590 --> 00:01:53.568
He is in the corporate world.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:53.568 --> 00:01:58.350
So yes, our family has been involved in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:01:58.350 --> 00:02:00.653
In medical research and in the cancer

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:00.653 --> 00:02:02.940
field for all of our adult lives,

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:02.940 --> 00:02:05.004
essentially how far back

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:05.004 --> 00:02:07.068
does that interest go?

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:07.070 --> 00:02:09.322
Well, speaking for myself

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:09.322 --> 00:02:12.700
as as I look back on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:12.700 --> 00:02:15.248
On my own coming to MD Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:16.995
it's an interesting story because

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:16.995 --> 00:02:20.208
it's a kind of a little small inside.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894272082

00:02:20.210 --> 00:02:21.630
Into what was happening?

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:23.640 --> 00:02:25.950
In the cancer field and in

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:25.950 --> 00:02:27.490
biomedical science in general

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:27.562 --> 00:02:29.417
during that period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:29.420 --> 00:02:33.249
Because I came into my college years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:33.250 --> 00:02:36.362
Really. At the beginning of one of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:36.362 --> 00:02:39.018
golden ages of biomedical research?

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:39.020 --> 00:02:42.540
I grew up in a small town in North Texas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:42.540 --> 00:02:45.699
And attended college.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:45.700 --> 00:02:47.002
In Wichita Falls,

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:47.002 --> 00:02:49.172
a college that ultimately became

NOTE Confidence: 0.839080816

00:02:49.172 --> 00:02:50.820
Midwestern State University.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:02:53.700 --> 00:02:58.540
My first exposure. For cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:02:58.540 --> 00:03:02.554
In the sense of having been influenced by it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.210
Was in the spring of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:05.210 --> 00:03:07.370
My senior year in high school,

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:07.370 --> 00:03:11.255
my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:11.260 --> 00:03:13.180
Looking back on what was available

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:16.568
at the time, it was a particularly.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:16.568 --> 00:03:18.389
Progressive and rapidly

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:18.389 --> 00:03:21.619
developing form of breast cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:24.668
She had a mastectomy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:24.670 --> 00:03:27.334
Done by a general surgeon in a small

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:27.334 --> 00:03:30.115
town there in Texas and then spent some

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:30.115 --> 00:03:32.969
weeks in Fort Worth having radiotherapy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:32.970 --> 00:03:36.434
But by that time the cancer was already

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:36.434 --> 00:03:38.970
spreading throughout her body and she died.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:38.970 --> 00:03:42.575
Just 50 weeks to the day after.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:42.580 --> 00:03:46.330
Her. Mastectomy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79008424

00:03:46.330 --> 00:03:47.746
And I thought at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:03:49.940 --> 00:03:51.674
What an awful thing that a

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:03:51.674 --> 00:03:53.914
that a woman 38 years old could

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:03:53.914 --> 00:03:56.273
develop cancer and die in a year,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:58.975
and there didn't seem to be an

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:03:58.975 --> 00:04:01.418
awful lot that could be done.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:04:01.420 --> 00:04:04.620
But like most young. People.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:07.980
I was impressionable and I I didn't give.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:04:07.980 --> 00:04:10.024
Very much credence to the notion that

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:04:10.024 --> 00:04:12.599
that I could ever personally do anything.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:04:12.600 --> 00:04:14.400
It was just one of those.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8361302015

00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.256
Kind of dreams that go through your mind.

NOTE Confidence: 0.933299715

00:04:18.690 --> 00:04:20.514
But as soon as I got to college.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.746
I learned somewhat to the skepticism of

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:24.746 --> 00:04:27.005
the rest of my family that you could

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:27.005 --> 00:04:29.079
actually make a living as a scientist,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:29.080 --> 00:04:30.410
you could either teach science

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:32.394
or so forth and I'd always had

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:32.394 --> 00:04:33.879
a natural flair for science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:33.880 --> 00:04:36.848
And so I majored in a kind

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:36.848 --> 00:04:40.150
of a combination pre Med.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:40.150 --> 00:04:46.680
And botany curriculum at Midwestern. Because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.089
The faculty were such great mentors there,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:50.090 --> 00:04:53.794
and. One summer I took my first course

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:53.794 --> 00:04:56.788
in microbiology and that was it for me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:56.790 --> 00:04:59.913
I at the time, it really wasn't clear to

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:04:59.913 --> 00:05:03.408
me that I could make a reasonable living.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:03.410 --> 00:05:04.278
Doing microbiology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:04.278 --> 00:05:06.448
But I didn't much care.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:06.450 --> 00:05:07.944
I figured that was what I wanted to do,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:07.950 --> 00:05:09.390
and if I couldn't make a living at it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:09.390 --> 00:05:11.382
I would manage somehow.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:11.382 --> 00:05:14.370
Typical young person's point of view.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:14.370 --> 00:05:17.180
And when graduation time came

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:19.264
from Midwestern, I sent out.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:19.264 --> 00:05:21.172
I don't even remember how many

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:21.172 --> 00:05:23.088
letters now to graduate schools.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:23.090 --> 00:05:28.170
And sure enough. I received a letter back.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:28.170 --> 00:05:32.850
From a microbiologist named Steven Pilcher.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:32.850 --> 00:05:35.982
Who was professor of microbiology at

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:35.982 --> 00:05:39.930
Oregon State? University in Corvallis, OR.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:39.930 --> 00:05:42.798
He was working on influenza virus.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864417079090909

00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:43.720
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:05:46.010 --> 00:05:53.030
Had a fellowship. That was designed to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:05:53.030 --> 00:05:56.240
Grow influenza virus and treat the

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.230
growing virus with a long list of

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:05:59.230 --> 00:06:01.150
substances that were being synthesized

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:06:01.219 --> 00:06:03.718
by another graduate student on the same

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:06:03.718 --> 00:06:06.807
project to try to see if we could find

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:06:06.807 --> 00:06:08.657
substances that you could ultimately

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:06:08.657 --> 00:06:12.486
think of in terms of treating flu.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:06:12.490 --> 00:06:17.320
I accepted this. Assistantship.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82619258

00:06:17.320 --> 00:06:19.098
Sent my letter off on a Friday.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:26.350
That weekend, I proposed to a young

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:26.350 --> 00:06:29.643
fellow student that I had met and

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:29.643 --> 00:06:32.145
fallen in love with in college.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:32.150 --> 00:06:35.861
We got married. In March. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:35.861 --> 00:06:38.867
When the end of May came,

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:38.870 --> 00:06:41.516
we took off with all of our

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:41.516 --> 00:06:44.765
worldly goods and. My 49 Ford.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86084914

00:06:44.765 --> 00:06:49.590
And we drove that 2400 miles to Corvallis OR.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.836
Kids very excited about the adventure,

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:06:53.840 --> 00:06:56.283
but having no clue as as to

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:06:56.283 --> 00:06:58.420
what was ahead of us. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:06:58.420 --> 00:07:00.920
I began my research assistantship

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.492
in Doctor Pilcher's laboratory and

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:03.492 --> 00:07:05.967
begin taking courses in microbiology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:05.970 --> 00:07:09.026
and every course I took convinced me that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:09.030 --> 00:07:13.265
That I had made the right choice.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:13.270 --> 00:07:16.318
Remembering the situation with my mother.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:16.320 --> 00:07:17.988
I had long conversations with Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:17.988 --> 00:07:19.675
Pilcher about whether or not I

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:19.675 --> 00:07:20.980
should think about medical school,

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:20.980 --> 00:07:23.212
and in those days the working

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:23.212 --> 00:07:25.515
philosophy was that if you wanted

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:25.515 --> 00:07:27.355
to take care of patients.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:29.592
You went to medical school if

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:29.592 --> 00:07:31.890
you wanted to do research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:31.890 --> 00:07:34.410
You went to Graduate School and did a PhD,

NOTE Confidence: 0.802053338333333

00:07:34.410 --> 00:07:36.270
and I opted for a PhD.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7635613225

00:07:41.830 --> 00:07:48.669
In. March of 1956. After my bride

NOTE Confidence: 0.7635613225

00:07:48.669 --> 00:07:51.910
and I had arrived at Oregon State.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7635613225

00:07:51.910 --> 00:07:55.840
In early June of 1955.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7635613225

00:07:55.840 --> 00:08:00.990
She began having unusual symptoms. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:04.410 --> 00:08:06.470
A trip to the doctor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:11.158
Launched a series of X-rays and other tests.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.970
That culminated in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:14.970 --> 00:08:18.036
Her receiving a diagnosis of a form

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:18.036 --> 00:08:20.959
of cancer called Hodgkin's Disease.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:20.960 --> 00:08:23.000
She had probably had Hodgkin's

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:25.040
for a good many months,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.512
but it was the first time that the

NOTE Confidence: 0.83153875

00:08:27.512 --> 00:08:29.747
tumor had grown large enough to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.64415317

00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:32.750
Across symptoms.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:38.178
Well, once again in those days what

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:38.178 --> 00:08:40.676
was available was was radiotherapy

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:40.676 --> 00:08:43.898
and they were beginning to experiment

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:43.898 --> 00:08:46.510
with with chemotherapy using

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:46.510 --> 00:08:49.418
substances like nitrogen mustard.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:49.420 --> 00:08:52.980
And my wife had continuing

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:55.116
courses of radiotherapy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.144
She had one course of nitrogen mustard.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:08:58.150 --> 00:09:01.950
But. About 2 1/2 years after her diagnosis,

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:01.950 --> 00:09:05.020
she died from. Systemic Hodgkin's

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:05.020 --> 00:09:09.510
disease as an as a postscript.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:09.510 --> 00:09:12.750
It's interesting to note that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:12.750 --> 00:09:14.350
In the year 2000,

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:16.645
Hodgkin's disease is about 90% curable,

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:16.645 --> 00:09:18.710
particularly if you catch it in time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:18.710 --> 00:09:20.782
But in those days there was really

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:20.782 --> 00:09:22.658
no no hope, no hope of cure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:22.658 --> 00:09:23.646
How old was she?

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:23.650 --> 00:09:29.360
She was 27 when she died.

NOTE Confidence: 0.865720234230769

00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:30.030
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.915311395555556

00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:34.917
During the period of time that she was ill,

NOTE Confidence: 0.915311395555556

00:09:34.920 --> 00:09:38.084
I I tried to do something about

NOTE Confidence: 0.915311395555556

00:09:38.084 --> 00:09:40.200
about my ignorance, about cancer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.915311395555556

00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.240
and I would read in the library and

NOTE Confidence: 0.915311395555556

00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.380
in those days not a lot was known but.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:09:49.370 --> 00:09:50.372
My major professor,

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:09:50.372 --> 00:09:53.930
who was also one of my very closest friends.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:09:53.930 --> 00:09:55.712
Gave me a paper one day and he said,

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:58.289
you know, there's a place in Texas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:09:58.290 --> 00:10:00.950
That is doing some really remarkable things.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:00.950 --> 00:10:02.838
There's a whole institution

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:02.838 --> 00:10:05.198
in Texas that does nothing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.828
But free cancer and do research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:07.830 --> 00:10:09.966
On cancer, if you ever thought

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:09.966 --> 00:10:12.679
of going back to your home state.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:12.680 --> 00:10:14.282
You probably ought to contact those

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:14.282 --> 00:10:16.259
people when you when you finish school.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:16.260 --> 00:10:18.215
And what year was this? This?

NOTE Confidence: 0.92000393

00:10:18.215 --> 00:10:22.290
That year was 1957, approximately.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:24.390 --> 00:10:27.952
My young wife died in November of 1958.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:27.952 --> 00:10:30.556
But. By an agreement that she and

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:30.556 --> 00:10:33.616
I had always had with each other.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:38.208
I continue. We took her home to Texas

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:38.208 --> 00:10:42.170
for her last couple of months of life.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:42.170 --> 00:10:43.920
She died and was buried in her

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:45.870
family plot in North Texas and then

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:47.882
I immediately got on the plane and

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:47.882 --> 00:10:49.882
went back to school and went back to

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:49.882 --> 00:10:52.798
work and finished my my PhD there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:56.323
The I finished my PhD in 1961

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:56.323 --> 00:10:58.938
and when I was preparing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:01.840
To finish up my doctorate,

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.336
I began writing letters both for jobs and

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:05.336 --> 00:11:08.588
for potential additional training in a

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:08.588 --> 00:11:11.458
postdoctoral fellowship kind of setting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:11.460 --> 00:11:15.680
The. I wrote mainly to pharmaceutical

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:18.070
companies because they were the

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:18.152 --> 00:11:20.618
ones that were doing research on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:22.310
On developing drugs to treat

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:22.310 --> 00:11:24.000
virus infections in those days,

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:25.500
and because there were so few

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:27.239
of us doing it in the time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:28.740
even as a graduate student,

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:28.740 --> 00:11:31.630
our group was considered something

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:31.630 --> 00:11:33.364
of experts on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:33.370 --> 00:11:36.380
On on research on controlling

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:36.380 --> 00:11:37.584
influenza virus.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891773801428571

00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:38.060
Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:41.150 --> 00:11:43.160
But I write this paper

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:43.160 --> 00:11:44.650
that came out of India.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:44.650 --> 00:11:47.079
Anderson and I wrote them a letter.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:50.080
In addition to riding.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.036
Letters to pharmaceutical companies.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:52.036 --> 00:11:55.270
Do you remember who you wrote to?

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:55.270 --> 00:11:56.870
Yes, I certainly do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:56.870 --> 00:11:58.070
I certainly do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:11:58.070 --> 00:12:02.078
I wrote to a gentleman named Felix Haas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:08.656
The HAS Doctor Hayes was both the head of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:08.660 --> 00:12:12.228
Of a department then and was a special

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:12.228 --> 00:12:15.360
assistant to to Doctor Clark in

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.160
developing a basic science program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:18.160 --> 00:12:21.244
They had received a US public

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:21.244 --> 00:12:23.300
health service training grant.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:23.300 --> 00:12:27.899
For both Pre Doc and postdoc fellows.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:27.900 --> 00:12:30.735
And they offered me one of these

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:30.735 --> 00:12:32.330
postdoctoral fellowships because one

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:32.330 --> 00:12:34.826
of them had been assigned to a special

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:34.826 --> 00:12:37.256
section within the Department of Biology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.240
And I'll come back to that in just a moment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:42.540
This was the section of virology

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:44.190
and electron microscopy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781915952

00:12:44.190 --> 00:12:44.900
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905326721666667

00:12:47.030 --> 00:12:51.566
However, before I received the letter.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905326721666667

00:12:51.570 --> 00:12:54.358
Offering me this fellowship.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905326721666667

00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.763
I had signed a contract to go to work

NOTE Confidence: 0.905326721666667

00:12:56.763 --> 00:12:59.058
for the Sterling Drug Corporation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905326721666667

00:12:59.060 --> 00:13:02.020
In Albany, NY. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803013755714286

00:13:04.400 --> 00:13:06.284
But when I got the postdoctoral

NOTE Confidence: 0.803013755714286

00:13:06.284 --> 00:13:07.130
fellowship, I thought.

NOTE Confidence: 0.867108462857143

00:13:09.470 --> 00:13:10.544
Here's an institution

NOTE Confidence: 0.867108462857143

00:13:10.544 --> 00:13:11.976
that does Cancer Research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.888466211818182

00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:15.800
It's in Texas, where I've

NOTE Confidence: 0.888466211818182

00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:17.520
always wanted to go home again.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:21.224
And they're doing virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:21.224 --> 00:13:24.339
This is an this is an incredible

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:24.339 --> 00:13:27.717
juxtaposition of of interest for me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.328
It seems almost providential.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:34.746
So I wrote to my prospective employer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:34.750 --> 00:13:37.655
it's starting with her and said I

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:37.655 --> 00:13:40.940
have an offer for a year of postdoc.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:40.940 --> 00:13:42.683
Is there any way you could allow

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:42.683 --> 00:13:44.689
me to do this before I report

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:44.689 --> 00:13:46.477
to work in upstate New York?

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.075
And so after some telephone

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:49.075 --> 00:13:51.151
conversations and exchange of

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:51.151 --> 00:13:54.068
letters and and assurances that that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:54.070 --> 00:13:56.982
I really would come to work for them

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:56.982 --> 00:13:59.975
after my postdoc because in those

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:13:59.975 --> 00:14:02.622
days virology was blossoming. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:02.622 --> 00:14:05.856
And if you had training in virology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:05.860 --> 00:14:08.590
it was easy to get a job.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:08.590 --> 00:14:10.146
But at any rate,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:10.146 --> 00:14:13.360
they ultimately agreed to let me do a year.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.790
A postdoc with a fellow named Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:16.790 --> 00:14:19.250
Leon de Makowsky and Doctor de

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:19.250 --> 00:14:21.560
Mackowski was the head of the section

NOTE Confidence: 0.806297943529412

00:14:21.634 --> 00:14:23.969
of virology and electron microscopy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842782127142857

00:14:27.750 --> 00:14:30.802
And a man who believed that virtually

NOTE Confidence: 0.842782127142857

00:14:30.802 --> 00:14:34.089
all cancer in in the animal Kingdom,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842782127142857

00:14:34.090 --> 00:14:35.890
including in human beings.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842782127142857

00:14:35.890 --> 00:14:38.140
Was ultimately caused by viruses.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:44.664
It was an incredible time for the virologist.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:44.670 --> 00:14:47.082
Who was interested in cancer because

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:47.082 --> 00:14:49.798
there had during that period of time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:49.800 --> 00:14:53.706
been two discoveries of enormous importance.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:53.710 --> 00:14:57.556
One was that leukemia in mice?

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:57.560 --> 00:14:59.726
Was caused by a virus and

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:14:59.726 --> 00:15:01.639
was in fact transmissible by

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:03.589
injection from mouse to mouse.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:05.700
And there had been a

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:07.388
discovery by two scientists,

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:07.390 --> 00:15:11.310
Doctor Stewart and Eddie at the NIH

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:11.310 --> 00:15:14.676
that there was another virus called

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:14.676 --> 00:15:18.508
polyoma that could cause a large variety.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:18.510 --> 00:15:20.729
Of different kinds of cancers in mice,

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:20.730 --> 00:15:23.434
but it could be treated in the laboratory

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:23.434 --> 00:15:26.226
much like other viruses could be treated.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:29.494
And I was a virologist who had expertise

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:29.494 --> 00:15:32.158
in dealing with ordinary viruses.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890136475

00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:34.050
And so I was offered this postdoc.

NOTE Confidence: 0.488199835

00:15:36.590 --> 00:15:38.290
And in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:15:41.660 --> 00:15:49.058
Late June. Of 1961. I drove into Houston.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:15:49.060 --> 00:15:51.230
Found a small motel across from what

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:15:51.230 --> 00:15:53.512
was what was then the largest medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:15:53.512 --> 00:15:56.020
complex I had ever seen in my life,

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:15:56.020 --> 00:15:58.360
although it it's dwarfed by what

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.100
exists in the same side now. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:08.520
And here. Sort of anchoring one in

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:08.520 --> 00:16:12.056
the South end of this impressive

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:12.056 --> 00:16:15.516
complex was this enormous to my eye,

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:15.520 --> 00:16:21.180
imposing, overwhelming pink building.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:21.180 --> 00:16:24.522
That just radiated. Hope.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:24.522 --> 00:16:29.664
And I thought, Oh my God, I'm going to be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:29.664 --> 00:16:33.742
A part of this? Before you go further,

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:33.742 --> 00:16:36.670
I'd like to clarify one point.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:36.670 --> 00:16:39.254
You caught in the beginning of the interview

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:39.254 --> 00:16:41.789
or began talking about Cancer Research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:41.790 --> 00:16:44.697
You said it was a golden age or you

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:44.697 --> 00:16:46.963
connecting that with the discoveries

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:46.963 --> 00:16:48.827
of virus connected cancers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:48.830 --> 00:16:54.130
Well, yes, but but even more important.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:54.130 --> 00:16:58.378
Was the fact that that two

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:16:58.378 --> 00:17:01.868
scientists now Nobel laureates?

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:17:01.870 --> 00:17:04.414
Named Watson and Crick.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:17:04.414 --> 00:17:07.580
Published in 1951.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787752575

00:17:07.580 --> 00:17:09.119
A paper proposing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.894169783571429

00:17:12.120 --> 00:17:14.976
That they had worked out both the chemical

NOTE Confidence: 0.894169783571429

00:17:14.976 --> 00:17:17.048
composition and the structure of DNA.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:24.480
And. The fact that viruses were basically.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:29.010
Little packages of of genetic material.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:29.010 --> 00:17:32.025
Some DNA and some are

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:32.025 --> 00:17:35.040
related in plaque acid RNA.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:35.040 --> 00:17:39.180
Suddenly brought virology. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:41.680
And the basic building blocks

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:44.439
of both normal and abnormal

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:44.439 --> 00:17:48.470
cells together all at once. So.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:48.470 --> 00:17:52.430
The the discovery of the structure of DNA.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:54.606
The advances, for example,

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:54.606 --> 00:17:57.819
that that doctor Linus Pauling had

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:17:57.819 --> 00:18:00.753
just published in protein structure and

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:00.753 --> 00:18:03.675
synthesis meant that suddenly you could

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:03.675 --> 00:18:06.881
begin to study normal and abnormal cells.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:06.890 --> 00:18:09.026
Not only at the tissue and organ level,

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:09.030 --> 00:18:11.732
but at the cellular and even at

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:11.732 --> 00:18:13.879
the molecular level anymore and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.048
That is basically what I meant by saying

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:16.048 --> 00:18:18.580
we were moving into a golden a golden age.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:18.580 --> 00:18:23.116
I just wanted to clarify that the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:27.290
I'd like I'd like to to stop at that point.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:27.290 --> 00:18:27.876
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:27.876 --> 00:18:31.978
And move back a little bit from.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:35.168
From my own personal.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:35.170 --> 00:18:37.720
Opportunity to come to India Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:38.142
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.5011093

00:18:38.142 --> 00:18:41.096
And talk about why the opportunity existed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7230101

00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:45.760
When?

NOTE Confidence: 0.8182088325

00:18:47.870 --> 00:18:53.460
When the founding people of MD Anderson. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884956152

00:18:56.310 --> 00:18:58.895
Began to propose and ultimately

NOTE Confidence: 0.884956152

00:18:58.895 --> 00:19:01.480
to secure legislation to create.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884956152

00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:04.388
A cancer treatment hospital.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884956152

00:19:04.390 --> 00:19:06.196
And an institute which would also.

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:08.770 --> 00:19:11.010
Try to advance our ability to understand

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:11.010 --> 00:19:13.365
and deal with cancer and to educate

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:13.365 --> 00:19:15.960
others and those advancements that were

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.269
made when that began to be realized.

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:19.270 --> 00:19:24.010
The. They recruited Doctor Lee Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:24.010 --> 00:19:27.100
To replace the opening and founding

NOTE Confidence: 0.902905184666667

00:19:27.100 --> 00:19:29.790
director Doctor Burgner, and to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:34.350
And to bring this institution

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:34.350 --> 00:19:35.784
into into reality.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:35.790 --> 00:19:39.206
And Doctor Clark had an incredible vision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:40.905
He understood. That.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:40.905 --> 00:19:44.295
That you could hire and train

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:44.295 --> 00:19:47.379
the best and the brightest.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:47.380 --> 00:19:53.320
To apply all of the of the known abilities.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:53.320 --> 00:19:56.240
To diagnose and treat cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.200
Which in those days were predominantly

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.180
surgery and radiotherapy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:05.672
He knew that much had to be done with

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:05.672 --> 00:20:10.428
diagnosis, but he believed in his heart.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:12.958
That the ultimate answer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.030
To understanding and controlling cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:16.030 --> 00:20:21.410
Lay in. Understanding the basics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:21.410 --> 00:20:25.202
Of of why normal cells became cancerous and

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:25.202 --> 00:20:29.136
how cancer cells differed from normal cells.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.479
The how they competed, how they functioned,

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.720
and how they ultimately killed

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.440
the Organism the that bore them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.296
And he believed that, that understanding,

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:40.300 --> 00:20:42.972
and one of the first things I ever

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:42.972 --> 00:20:45.430
heard come out of the man's mouth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:45.430 --> 00:20:51.374
Was the answer to cancer is in DNA?

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:53.140
And it was not just a slogan with

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:55.924
Doctor Clark. It was an absolute.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85852869

00:20:55.924 --> 00:20:56.510
Conviction.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884584218571429

00:21:00.830 --> 00:21:04.680
Something that I think that he believed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884584218571429

00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:09.016
Had been laid on him to turn into

NOTE Confidence: 0.884584218571429

00:21:09.016 --> 00:21:10.688
reality. During his lifetime.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:13.520 --> 00:21:16.260
And what happened was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:16.260 --> 00:21:18.308
His condition of coming

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:18.308 --> 00:21:20.868
and taking over the initial

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:20.868 --> 00:21:23.069
operation from Indy Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:23.070 --> 00:21:26.948
Was that Indy Anderson not only be?

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:26.950 --> 00:21:30.700
A treatment. Facility.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.430
But it also will be allowed to

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:33.430 --> 00:21:36.130
develop a basic research program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:38.698
And an education program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:41.640
And so the institution was,

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.300
at Doctor Clark's insistence,

NOTE Confidence: 0.9261959675

00:21:44.300 --> 00:21:45.630
initially designated.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:50.870
Not just name, but designated.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:21:50.870 --> 00:21:53.546
The University of Texas MD Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:21:53.546 --> 00:21:55.821
Hospital and Tumor Institute because

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:21:55.821 --> 00:21:58.747
Doctor Clark felt that it was essential.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:01.242
That not only should have the Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:01.242 --> 00:22:03.609
be a functioning hospital in clinic.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:03.610 --> 00:22:06.370
But it should have from its first day

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:06.370 --> 00:22:08.659
of operation and academic identity.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:08.660 --> 00:22:12.517
So that it's science and its education.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:15.124
Would be fully academically

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:15.124 --> 00:22:17.077
recognized and accredited.

NOTE Confidence: 0.729072156

00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:20.450
Now. As events turned out.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:22.530 --> 00:22:24.605
That acceptance and academic accreditation

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:24.605 --> 00:22:27.071
became an ongoing battle which Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:27.071 --> 00:22:29.069
Clark fought for his whole career,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:29.070 --> 00:22:31.428
and which he inculcated into all

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:31.428 --> 00:22:34.698
of us who came to MD Anderson so

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:34.698 --> 00:22:37.110
that we fought the battle too.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:37.110 --> 00:22:39.390
Because he felt.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:39.390 --> 00:22:42.631
That we had to constantly strive to

NOTE Confidence: 0.860834208235294

00:22:42.631 --> 00:22:45.679
prove and reprove and to make known.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:50.220
Our academic identity.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:51.382
And I will come back to that

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:22:51.382 --> 00:22:54.638
point in a moment, if I may.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.770
But in the mean time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:22:56.770 --> 00:22:59.166
The organizational structure of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:22:59.166 --> 00:23:02.161
Of the MD Anderson Hospital

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:02.161 --> 00:23:04.359
and Tumor Institute.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:06.490
Was a pretty unusual one

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:08.620
for that period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:08.620 --> 00:23:11.462
The only place that I had first-hand

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:11.462 --> 00:23:14.915
knowledge of a of a of a similar approach.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.258
Was at the Leukemia Institute in Villagery,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:17.260 --> 00:23:19.590
France, an institute that Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:19.590 --> 00:23:21.454
Clark knew and understood.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:22.280
Pretty thoroughly.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:22.280 --> 00:23:25.150
And I think that there was some

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:27.367
patterning and some pioneering in

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:27.367 --> 00:23:29.532
in Doctor Clark's initial approach.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:29.540 --> 00:23:33.410
But what I found when I came to India

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:33.410 --> 00:23:38.220
Anderson on that steamy July Day in 1961.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:40.452
Was was a well established institute

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:40.452 --> 00:23:42.845
that had begun in temporary quarters

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:42.845 --> 00:23:45.743
but had moved to a wonderful new

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:45.743 --> 00:23:48.390
facility in the Texas Medical Center.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:48.390 --> 00:23:52.202
And which contained. Geographically.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:52.202 --> 00:23:56.967
A hospital and administrative unit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:23:56.970 --> 00:24:00.105
A Research Institute and both

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:00.105 --> 00:24:01.986
an educational component.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:01.990 --> 00:24:04.774
And a growing set of educational

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:04.774 --> 00:24:06.630
affiliations with other institutions,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:06.630 --> 00:24:08.430
with University of Texas at Austin,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:11.088
with the medical school in Galveston.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:11.090 --> 00:24:13.976
And I learned that when Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:13.976 --> 00:24:16.540
Clark was beginning to build.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:16.540 --> 00:24:19.431
His institute. He borrowed faculty

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:19.431 --> 00:24:21.790
and staff from from any from anywhere.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:21.790 --> 00:24:23.980
He could borrow them from Galveston,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:23.980 --> 00:24:25.560
from Austin, from Baylor,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.535
and from any place else.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:27.540 --> 00:24:29.880
And the loan was always temporary,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:31.060
but those people never left.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:31.060 --> 00:24:32.940
In the end, they'd stayed,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:35.376
most of them for their entire careers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:35.380 --> 00:24:37.760
MD Anderson was not an institution where

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:40.238
people came and went and came and went.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.920
They came, but they never went like me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.498
Once they got to MD Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:47.978
they never wanted to work anyplace else.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:50.230
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:50.230 --> 00:24:53.478
Look what I found when I came

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:53.478 --> 00:24:57.870
as a PhD and I had been warned.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:24:57.870 --> 00:25:00.103
By some of the academic faculty and

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:25:00.103 --> 00:25:03.375
some of my colleagues that have PhD

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:25:03.375 --> 00:25:05.950
moving into a medical environment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:25:05.950 --> 00:25:08.310
Was always an invariably a

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:25:08.310 --> 00:25:09.726
second class citizen.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858017043333333

00:25:09.730 --> 00:25:11.800
You anticipated one of my questions.

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:17.892
I was led to believe that the PHD's

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:17.892 --> 00:25:20.844
in place where the scut workers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:20.850 --> 00:25:23.378
Uh. We did the work and wrote the

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:23.378 --> 00:25:25.379
papers and left the authorship

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:25.379 --> 00:25:27.965
blank and the physicians put their

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:27.965 --> 00:25:30.325
names in and if we were lucky we

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:30.325 --> 00:25:32.778
got our name down somewhere in the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:33.908
In the authorship.

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:33.908 --> 00:25:36.164
Otherwise we might get an acknowledgement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:36.170 --> 00:25:37.595
Otherwise we might just be

NOTE Confidence: 0.916940698571429

00:25:37.595 --> 00:25:38.735
viewed as hard help.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8579656075

00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:44.134
And on my first interview with Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.8579656075

00:25:44.134 --> 00:25:45.778
Hawes. When I came for my postdoc.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:54.720
I told him about this concern. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:57.184
He also wanted to laugh and I think

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:25:57.184 --> 00:25:59.598
he also wanted to cuss a little.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:02.330
Because it both amused and offended him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:02.330 --> 00:26:05.207
He said. He said, no one here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:05.210 --> 00:26:07.090
Is a second class citizen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:07.090 --> 00:26:09.586
everybody who works at MD Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:09.590 --> 00:26:13.182
whether he does surgery.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:13.182 --> 00:26:14.978
Our radiotherapy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:16.752
Or does laboratory research?

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:16.752 --> 00:26:19.458
Or makes the beds, or sweep the floor,

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:19.458 --> 00:26:20.386
or whatever they do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:20.390 --> 00:26:22.898
They're here because Doctor Clark believes

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:22.898 --> 00:26:26.058
that they have a skill that he needs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:26.060 --> 00:26:28.010
And he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:28.010 --> 00:26:30.874
Tell me at the end of your postdoctoral

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:30.874 --> 00:26:32.957
training period of time if you fail.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920323423333333

00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:34.230
Like a second class citizen.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.576
And it was an amazing experience

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:41.576 --> 00:26:44.410
because never for one moment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:44.410 --> 00:26:46.438
During more than 30 years of

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:46.438 --> 00:26:47.790
association within the Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:47.790 --> 00:26:49.799
was I ever made by anybody to

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.200
feel like a second class citizen?

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.594
It was. It was really just amazing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:54.600 --> 00:26:56.332
It's quite a compliment

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:56.332 --> 00:26:58.064
not to the institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:26:58.070 --> 00:27:02.318
the IT it was an incredible philosophy and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:04.480
This is not to say there

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:05.920
that there weren't people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:07.930
Who did not have that feeling?

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:09.266
I mean, you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:09.266 --> 00:27:10.936
there were molecular biologists who

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:10.936 --> 00:27:12.940
felt superior to cell biologists,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:15.320
and cell biologists who felt

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:15.320 --> 00:27:16.748
superior to microbiologists,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:16.750 --> 00:27:19.641
and I'm sure there were pathologists who

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:19.641 --> 00:27:22.407
felt superior to nurses and so forth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:22.410 --> 00:27:24.468
But you never uttered it around

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:24.468 --> 00:27:25.840
Doctor Clark because retribution

NOTE Confidence: 0.885513154545454

00:27:25.896 --> 00:27:27.128
was swift and terrible.

NOTE Confidence: 0.43789023

00:27:29.430 --> 00:27:30.050
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:32.170 --> 00:27:35.890
Doctor Clark enforced his vision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:35.890 --> 00:27:39.958
He made everybody invest in it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.304
And if they did not invest in it?

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:43.310 --> 00:27:45.344
He did nothing to make it

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:45.344 --> 00:27:47.190
comfortable for them to start.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:47.190 --> 00:27:49.980
But the interesting thing was that

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:51.840
practically everyone did invest.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:54.010
Because he had a way of making

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:54.010 --> 00:27:55.800
you believe what he believed,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:57.468
and he was visible.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:57.468 --> 00:27:58.719
He was visible.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.992
Let me give you a little Side Story

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:00.992 --> 00:28:03.418
that is not in the chronology here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.396
But I saw it first as a postdoc.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.514
And the postdocs used to used to sit around

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:09.514 --> 00:28:12.600
over our beer and laugh at this situation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:14.496
And then I particularly saw it as a

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:14.496 --> 00:28:16.186
young faculty member when I came back.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:16.190 --> 00:28:18.656
I'll get back to that story.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:24.258
But. Doctor Clark. Began.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:24.260 --> 00:28:27.250
Every week.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:27.250 --> 00:28:30.036
Of the year and in the years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:31.732
With the General Staff meeting of

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:31.732 --> 00:28:33.380
department heads and other key staff,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:33.380 --> 00:28:36.280
both administrative, scientific and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:37.730
Sometimes medical,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:37.730 --> 00:28:39.668
but all the department heads and

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:39.668 --> 00:28:41.560
other people would be selected.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:41.560 --> 00:28:44.660
With a meeting at 7:30.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:48.386
On the 7th floor in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:48.386 --> 00:28:50.249
Director's conference room.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:50.250 --> 00:28:52.350
Doctor Clark was an exercise nut.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:52.350 --> 00:28:54.630
He always walked in the back door from

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:56.578
the parking lot every Monday morning

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:56.578 --> 00:28:58.558
and walked up those seven flights

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:28:58.621 --> 00:29:00.621
of stairs to his office to get his

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:00.621 --> 00:29:02.550
notes for the Monday morning meeting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:02.550 --> 00:29:04.325
And anyone that he happened

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:04.325 --> 00:29:05.658
to see on his way,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:06.870
he could scripted and they

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:06.870 --> 00:29:08.350
had to walk up with him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:08.350 --> 00:29:12.280
And it was always a source of humor for us.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:12.280 --> 00:29:16.640
To see significant scientists.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:18.500
Heads of medicine and and other

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:20.077
people hiding from Doctor Clark

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:20.077 --> 00:29:21.769
on Monday morning so that they

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:21.769 --> 00:29:23.678
could wait till he got out of

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:23.678 --> 00:29:25.178
sight and then take the elevator

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:27.565
up to the 7th floor and not have to

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:27.565 --> 00:29:29.700
walk all those flights with him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817226192

00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:30.110
But.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:32.780 --> 00:29:35.377
One of the things that is more

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:35.377 --> 00:29:37.010
significant to that story.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:37.010 --> 00:29:40.800
Is. There was a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:40.800 --> 00:29:43.200
There was a pervasive.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:44.649
And sometimes overwhelming,

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:44.649 --> 00:29:47.547
but most of the time reassuring

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:47.547 --> 00:29:49.819
sense of family in the group.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:49.820 --> 00:29:52.208
Everybody had a sense of belonging.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:52.210 --> 00:29:55.768
And everybody worked his tail off.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:55.770 --> 00:29:57.775
Because we understood that it

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:57.775 --> 00:29:59.780
was expected and we understood

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:29:59.850 --> 00:30:01.790
that there were people dying.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:01.790 --> 00:30:02.960
And the harder we were,

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:04.630
the sooner they might not.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:04.630 --> 00:30:07.648
Now that sounds a little bit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:10.680
Like in aggrandizement of the situation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:11.700
But I promise you,

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:14.794
it was a it was a real philosophy that

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:14.794 --> 00:30:17.274
was shared by practically everyone.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:20.696
The. But to get back to the

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:20.696 --> 00:30:21.208
organizational structure,

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:21.210 --> 00:30:23.600
everything.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:26.000
What we found was the initial

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.142
steps toward the realization of

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:28.142 --> 00:30:30.018
Doctor Clark's original vision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.918513802727273

00:30:30.020 --> 00:30:31.440
We had clinical departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836123368888889

00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:38.322
And we had three fully operational

NOTE Confidence: 0.836123368888889

00:30:38.322 --> 00:30:40.353
basic science departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836123368888889

00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:43.825
Each of them focused on some aspect

NOTE Confidence: 0.836123368888889

00:30:43.825 --> 00:30:45.470
of understanding. Excuse me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79829182

00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:57.608
Beginning interview side 2.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:01.670 --> 00:31:04.846
These three fully structured

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:04.846 --> 00:31:07.228
basic science departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:07.230 --> 00:31:11.094
We're all focused on some aspect of DNA.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:15.850
It's structure. How it functioned?

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:15.850 --> 00:31:17.698
How it changed when a cell

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:17.698 --> 00:31:19.610
went from normal to cancerous

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:19.610 --> 00:31:21.818
and a whole variety of things.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:21.820 --> 00:31:25.120
The departments were biochemistry.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:25.120 --> 00:31:27.184
Biology and physics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:27.184 --> 00:31:29.248
The Physics department,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:29.250 --> 00:31:31.007
as I understood it at the time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:31.010 --> 00:31:33.649
had grown out of the need to

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:33.649 --> 00:31:35.599
recruit physicists to help to

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.807
build the first Cobalt 60 unit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:37.810 --> 00:31:40.890
Which I believe was the first such unit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:40.890 --> 00:31:43.536
To be constructed in the United States.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:43.540 --> 00:31:45.890
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:45.890 --> 00:31:49.726
One of the results of that early

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:49.726 --> 00:31:52.108
pioneering of physics was that

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:52.108 --> 00:31:54.322
MD Anderson became one of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:54.322 --> 00:31:57.198
national and even world Centers for

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:57.198 --> 00:31:58.740
understanding radiation dosimetry

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:01.580
and has always and is today a

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:01.580 --> 00:32:04.116
leader in in all aspects of both

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:04.116 --> 00:32:06.940
diagnostic and therapeutic radiology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:06.940 --> 00:32:10.634
It all began in the basement of MD

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:10.634 --> 00:32:13.553
Anderson with a bunch of physicists and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:13.560 --> 00:32:15.868
And radiologists building that

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:15.868 --> 00:32:18.753
unit and then applying it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:21.529
To treat cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:21.530 --> 00:32:22.162
Ultimately,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:22.162 --> 00:32:24.690
biophysicists were brought into

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:28.420
the group and they were studying

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:28.420 --> 00:32:30.780
in a variety of ways.

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:30.780 --> 00:32:33.874
The structure of DNA and of RNA,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:34.705
and of proteins,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840400195714286

00:32:34.705 --> 00:32:37.000
and of how they interacted with each other.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:43.351
Doctor Haas, who was a trusted advisor

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:43.351 --> 00:32:45.818
of Doctor Clark's in those days,

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:45.820 --> 00:32:48.600
and probably the most effective

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:48.600 --> 00:32:51.380
early recruiter of basic scientists,

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:54.487
Tim MD Anderson. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:54.487 --> 00:32:57.748
Convince Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855152926153846

00:32:57.750 --> 00:33:00.980
That, that within biological science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:03.280 --> 00:33:05.828
It was the sub science in those

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:05.828 --> 00:33:08.708
days of sub science of genetics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:08.710 --> 00:33:12.316
That probably offered the most promise.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:15.116
And Doctor Clark allowed Doctor Haas

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:15.116 --> 00:33:18.256
to recruit and to develop programs

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:18.256 --> 00:33:21.216
in several aspects of genetics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:21.220 --> 00:33:23.854
Microbial genetics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:23.854 --> 00:33:26.488
Cellular genetics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:30.095
And even whole animal and Human Genetics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:30.100 --> 00:33:34.014
The were. We're coming along,

NOTE Confidence: 0.833973839230769

00:33:34.014 --> 00:33:36.279
as science is in their own right at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:38.780 --> 00:33:41.216
And Doctor Haas and Doctor Clark

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:41.216 --> 00:33:44.100
and the people that they recruited.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:44.100 --> 00:33:46.566
Established major programs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:46.566 --> 00:33:50.676
In each of these areas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.445
Which period of what years

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:52.445 --> 00:33:53.857
are we talking about?

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:53.860 --> 00:33:57.090
These are this this period?

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:33:57.090 --> 00:34:00.128
Began in the late 50s and carried

NOTE Confidence: 0.8215170225

00:34:00.128 --> 00:34:03.580
through well through the 60s and 70s. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:07.570 --> 00:34:10.954
I was a part of one of the sections.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:12.408
In the biology department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:12.408 --> 00:34:15.081
But we were a hybrid of biology

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:15.081 --> 00:34:17.216
because we were studying viruses

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:17.216 --> 00:34:19.990
and cells in which viruses were

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:19.990 --> 00:34:21.970
growing and causing changes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:21.970 --> 00:34:24.119
But our best tool at that time

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:25.830
was the electron microscope,

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:25.830 --> 00:34:27.415
which in fact existed within

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:27.415 --> 00:34:29.000
the Physics department and was

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:29.062 --> 00:34:30.567
part of the physics program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:35.138
So our section was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:35.140 --> 00:34:38.440
Was part of biology and yet

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:42.160
drew heavily on physics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:42.160 --> 00:34:44.080
But Doctor de Mackowski's dream,

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:44.080 --> 00:34:46.138
although he was staying fairly quiet

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:46.138 --> 00:34:48.630
about it to everyone except in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:48.630 --> 00:34:50.395
private visits with Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.901594396666667

00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:51.890
Was to have a major.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:34:54.530 --> 00:34:57.570
Multidimensional virology program independent

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:34:57.570 --> 00:35:02.990
of other aspects of of biology and for

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:02.990 --> 00:35:07.678
a few years that was actually realized.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:07.680 --> 00:35:11.192
Will reflect on that also. In a moment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:11.192 --> 00:35:14.271
Meantime, let me pick up a little bit of

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:14.271 --> 00:35:16.847
my own personal experience at that time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:16.850 --> 00:35:18.786
And are you in a position in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:18.786 --> 00:35:20.486
time we're going to talk about

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:20.486 --> 00:35:21.926
what position were you in?

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:21.930 --> 00:35:24.926
I'm going to go back now to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:24.930 --> 00:35:27.870
To that year as a postdoctoral trainee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:27.870 --> 00:35:32.560
OK. In that year, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:32.560 --> 00:35:36.466
I brought an understanding of how to

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:36.466 --> 00:35:40.999
use drugs to study virus development.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.490
To how to?

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:43.490 --> 00:35:47.137
To study viruses in the laboratory using

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:47.137 --> 00:35:50.089
tissue cultures and similar things.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:50.090 --> 00:35:51.626
And I learned an enormous amount.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:51.630 --> 00:35:53.730
I learned how to handle viruses

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:53.730 --> 00:35:54.780
that cause cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:58.974
The there was an old, rather dilapidated

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:35:58.974 --> 00:36:02.109
building down on Blodgett St.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:02.110 --> 00:36:05.686
In those days, that had once.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:06.858
Housed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:06.858 --> 00:36:11.530
The Houston Dental Institute,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:11.530 --> 00:36:13.810
which ultimately I think became the

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:13.810 --> 00:36:16.438
University of Texas Dental School at Easter.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:20.399
But. The old building.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:23.109
Was taken over by a few specific

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:23.109 --> 00:36:25.659
projects and by a dental school

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:25.659 --> 00:36:28.269
project where one of their faculty

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:28.269 --> 00:36:30.969
was actually raising marmosets.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:30.970 --> 00:36:33.115
To study various aspects of

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:33.115 --> 00:36:35.260
research in these small primates.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:35.260 --> 00:36:37.588
And Doctor de Mccaskey and a few others

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:37.588 --> 00:36:40.498
had a huge rodent colony in the basement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.724
And he was able to import from all

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:42.724 --> 00:36:45.227
over the world strains of mice that

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:45.227 --> 00:36:47.102
were specific for various kinds

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:47.176 --> 00:36:49.151
of cancer and for associations

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:49.151 --> 00:36:51.126
with various kinds of viruses,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:51.130 --> 00:36:53.490
particularly the viruses of mass

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:53.490 --> 00:36:56.460
leukemia and of mouse mammary cancer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:59.008
which at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:36:59.010 --> 00:37:01.115
Everyone who was working in

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:01.115 --> 00:37:02.378
the field believed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:02.380 --> 00:37:05.446
Might be a good model for

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:05.446 --> 00:37:06.979
human breast cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:07.354
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:07.354 --> 00:37:10.346
A window in my own head that had

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:10.346 --> 00:37:13.493
been closed for a few years opened

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:13.493 --> 00:37:16.169
up because there was a chance.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:16.170 --> 00:37:17.898
To study a model.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:17.898 --> 00:37:19.626
For human breast cancer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:19.630 --> 00:37:21.310
and as events turned out,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:21.310 --> 00:37:22.730
mouse mammary cancer turned out

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:22.730 --> 00:37:25.064
to be one of the most invaluable

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:25.064 --> 00:37:27.194
tools for studying virus cellular

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:27.194 --> 00:37:29.010
associations that ever existed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:29.010 --> 00:37:30.602
But it did not turn out to be

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:30.602 --> 00:37:31.838
a particularly good model for

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:31.838 --> 00:37:32.630
human breast cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:32.630 --> 00:37:36.249
Other models came along that were better.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:38.098
But we did that year a

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:38.098 --> 00:37:39.330
tremendous amount of work.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:39.330 --> 00:37:41.700
We worked very long hours.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:41.700 --> 00:37:42.225
Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:42.225 --> 00:37:45.900
Designed and carried out lots of experiments,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:48.132
both in the tissue culture laboratory

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:48.132 --> 00:37:50.890
where we were growing cells artificially.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:50.890 --> 00:37:53.578
And culture and treating them with

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:53.578 --> 00:37:56.321
various viruses to try to understand

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:56.321 --> 00:37:59.373
why some viruses cause cells to die.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:01.515
Others caused them to transform

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:38:01.515 --> 00:38:02.796
and become cancerous,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.075
and others had no effect at all.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:38:05.080 --> 00:38:07.572
The and we also tried to study

NOTE Confidence: 0.877509937333333

00:38:07.572 --> 00:38:08.284
the transmission.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:10.700 --> 00:38:13.717
Of these cancers that we knew were

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:13.717 --> 00:38:15.735
virus associated, namely the penia.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:15.735 --> 00:38:18.430
Memory cancer in mice and this strange

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:18.500 --> 00:38:21.097
kind of oddball virus that was capable

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:21.097 --> 00:38:24.068
of causing both cancer and what we used

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:24.068 --> 00:38:26.268
to call lytic destruction of cells.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:26.268 --> 00:38:28.716
It just killed and destroyed them,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:31.460
called polyoma.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:31.460 --> 00:38:32.580
And all over the world,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:32.580 --> 00:38:34.568
other people were doing this kind of

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:34.568 --> 00:38:37.516
work too, and we began to develop a

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:37.516 --> 00:38:40.202
catalog of viruses that were associated

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:40.202 --> 00:38:43.238
with with various forms of cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:45.295
Doctor de Makowsky had begun

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:45.295 --> 00:38:47.350
to see in the samples.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:47.350 --> 00:38:49.590
Taken from human leukemia patients,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:49.590 --> 00:38:51.790
that would be Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:51.790 --> 00:38:54.226
The same kind of structures that

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:54.226 --> 00:38:56.424
were associated with the virus

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:56.424 --> 00:38:58.420
transmitted leukemia in mice.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:58.420 --> 00:38:59.653
This, of course,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:38:59.653 --> 00:39:01.708
created an atmosphere where we

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:01.708 --> 00:39:04.848
begin to believe that there might in

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:04.848 --> 00:39:07.088
fact be a biological association.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:07.090 --> 00:39:08.166
With leukemia.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:08.166 --> 00:39:11.394
Perhaps with breast cancer and perhaps

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:11.394 --> 00:39:14.897
with other forms of cancer in human beings,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:14.897 --> 00:39:17.410
but it was in childhood leukemia where

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:17.475 --> 00:39:19.887
we begin to see these characteristic.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:19.890 --> 00:39:22.524
Virus particles that in those days

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:22.524 --> 00:39:24.869
were called ctype because of the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:24.870 --> 00:39:28.059
An arbitrary structural. Designation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:28.059 --> 00:39:31.552
And we began to think that maybe

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:31.552 --> 00:39:34.660
there would be a human counterpart.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:34.660 --> 00:39:40.470
To. The virus causation of leukemia.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:40.470 --> 00:39:42.920
In March.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.555
And that was an extraordinarily

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:45.555 --> 00:39:46.609
productive year.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:48.350
We wrote several papers,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:48.350 --> 00:39:50.090
did lots of experiments,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841061276666667

00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:51.626
but when the end of the year came.

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:39:54.150 --> 00:39:57.915
In about. April. In fact,

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:39:57.915 --> 00:40:00.590
that year I received a letter from the

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:40:00.590 --> 00:40:02.182
Sterling Winthrop Drug Corporation

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:40:02.182 --> 00:40:04.891
reminding me that I have signed the

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:40:04.891 --> 00:40:07.515
contract to come and work for them after.

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:40:07.520 --> 00:40:12.300
One year. Enemy energy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:16.076
I was, I was very unhappy about this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.881396425

00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:19.830
Uh. But an agreement was an agreement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.330
Plus the fact that Doctor de Mccaskey

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:24.330 --> 00:40:27.267
did not have anything at that time

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:27.267 --> 00:40:29.527
available except an additional year.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:29.530 --> 00:40:33.578
Of postdoc. And I had fallen in love again,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:33.580 --> 00:40:36.730
and was preparing. To marry again,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:36.730 --> 00:40:39.230
and I felt as though I needed a real job.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:39.230 --> 00:40:42.002
So, in an atmosphere of some

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:42.002 --> 00:40:43.850
acrimony with Doctor Domkowski.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:43.850 --> 00:40:48.248
The I finished up in August.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:48.250 --> 00:40:51.688
Once again, put my worldly goods in the car.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:51.690 --> 00:40:54.500
Drove out to northern New

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:57.310
Mexico to marry my fiance.

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:57.310 --> 00:40:58.220
And then?

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:40:58.220 --> 00:41:00.950
We left from the wedding reception

NOTE Confidence: 0.806601989473684

00:41:00.950 --> 00:41:04.376
in a in a hideously painted up.

NOTE Confidence: 0.832133553333333

00:41:07.550 --> 00:41:11.960
Little mercury comet. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.832133553333333

00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:17.616
Drove as newlyweds to upstate New York.

NOTE Confidence: 0.832133553333333

00:41:17.620 --> 00:41:19.475
To take a job at the starting

NOTE Confidence: 0.832133553333333

00:41:19.475 --> 00:41:20.724
with the Research Institute

NOTE Confidence: 0.832133553333333

00:41:20.724 --> 00:41:22.699
working once again on influenza.

NOTE Confidence: 0.940000916666667

00:41:25.550 --> 00:41:28.029
But in my heart of hearts, I knew that

NOTE Confidence: 0.940000916666667

00:41:28.029 --> 00:41:29.800
I never really wanted to spend my

NOTE Confidence: 0.940000916666667

00:41:29.862 --> 00:41:31.890
career anywhere but in the interest.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:35.510 --> 00:41:38.350
I had obtained some independent

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:38.350 --> 00:41:41.190
funds and some agreements from

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:41.287 --> 00:41:43.577
my bosses at MD Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:43.580 --> 00:41:47.228
That. The annual Symposium on

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:47.228 --> 00:41:48.464
Fundamental Cancer Research,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:48.470 --> 00:41:51.870
which MD Anderson was now holding every year.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:51.870 --> 00:41:56.056
Was in fact going to be chaired.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:41:56.060 --> 00:42:00.536
By Doctor Mccaskey in February of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:00.540 --> 00:42:05.592
Of 1960. 3. It was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:05.592 --> 00:42:07.638
And I had my own money,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:07.640 --> 00:42:10.993
and obtained an allotment of time to

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:10.993 --> 00:42:14.780
come back to that symposium arguing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:17.612
That that this was one of the greatest

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:17.612 --> 00:42:19.372
collections of virologists and there

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:19.372 --> 00:42:22.521
would be a there would be a real chance

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:22.521 --> 00:42:25.272
we were working on influenza and measles.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:27.950
At that time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:27.950 --> 00:42:30.366
But I began to see changes at starting

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:30.366 --> 00:42:33.590
Winthrop, which which made me nervous.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:33.590 --> 00:42:36.540
Because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:36.540 --> 00:42:40.110
The company was not seeing profit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:43.078
From the drug studies.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:46.685
And there was pressure on them from.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:46.690 --> 00:42:49.120
Various.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:49.120 --> 00:42:50.900
Quadrants.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:50.900 --> 00:42:52.440
To begin to produce vaccines,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:53.972
because vaccines were in

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:53.972 --> 00:42:55.504
demand in those days.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:55.510 --> 00:42:57.766
And they were told that they had a

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:42:57.766 --> 00:43:00.008
guy who really knew how to grow,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:00.010 --> 00:43:01.330
how to grow influenza virus,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:01.330 --> 00:43:02.570
because it's a graduate student.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:02.570 --> 00:43:04.214
I had made influenza virus for

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:04.214 --> 00:43:06.189
all the labs and for everybody.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:06.190 --> 00:43:09.526
And so I was transferred out of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:09.526 --> 00:43:12.476
drug testing unit into the vaccine unit,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:12.476 --> 00:43:16.087
and my job was to oversee the inoculation

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:16.087 --> 00:43:19.615
of 400 dozen embryonated eggs a day.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:19.620 --> 00:43:25.173
In order to to produce a very high quality.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:25.180 --> 00:43:27.924
But but with a very low profit margin

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:27.924 --> 00:43:29.327
vaccine because we essentially

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:29.327 --> 00:43:31.271
were making it by hand even

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:31.271 --> 00:43:33.018
using a hand bottle cap.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:33.020 --> 00:43:35.248
The and I thought.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:35.248 --> 00:43:39.060
There's no future in this for me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:39.060 --> 00:43:42.060
So when I came to this symposium and

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:42.060 --> 00:43:44.373
being Anderson in February of 1963,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:44.373 --> 00:43:46.638
I began to reestablish contacts

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:46.638 --> 00:43:50.980
and I met a man with whom I had

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:53.220
been greatly impressed by the

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:53.220 --> 00:43:54.780
name of Clark Griffin.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:56.480
An American Cancer Society

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:58.180
research biochemist who was

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:43:58.180 --> 00:44:00.180
doing really marvelous things.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:00.180 --> 00:44:00.518
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:00.518 --> 00:44:03.222
They had a virologist in their group who

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:03.222 --> 00:44:06.045
was thinking and moving over to Baylor,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:07.550
and they wanted a young biologist

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:09.675
to come in and do the virology that

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:09.675 --> 00:44:12.025
they were planning on doing as a part

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:12.025 --> 00:44:13.417
of their biochemistry department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:13.420 --> 00:44:15.387
And this was the Department of Biochemistry,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:15.390 --> 00:44:17.766
not the section of electron microscopy

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:17.766 --> 00:44:20.928
and biology and the Department of Biology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:20.930 --> 00:44:22.282
And I said yes,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:22.282 --> 00:44:24.310
I I would be very interested.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816692247333333

00:44:24.310 --> 00:44:27.220
Let me send you CV the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879305046363636

00:44:29.230 --> 00:44:30.700
We actually had dinner together

NOTE Confidence: 0.879305046363636

00:44:30.700 --> 00:44:32.470
twice during that period of time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879305046363636

00:44:32.470 --> 00:44:36.370
and. And a few weeks later.

NOTE Confidence: 0.898317458

00:44:38.900 --> 00:44:41.460
I wrote back to him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.898317458

00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:43.944
With a copy of my CV and saying I

NOTE Confidence: 0.898317458

00:44:43.944 --> 00:44:45.690
would be very, very interested.

NOTE Confidence: 0.824494754

00:44:47.730 --> 00:44:50.270
And an assistant professor position.

NOTE Confidence: 0.824494754

00:44:50.270 --> 00:44:52.358
And the proper biochemistry.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:44:55.180 --> 00:44:59.116
And. Time went by and time went by and

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:44:59.116 --> 00:45:01.439
time went by and I didn't hear anything.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:06.060
And so I called. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:06.060 --> 00:45:07.938
Was told not by Doctor Griffin,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:07.940 --> 00:45:09.820
who was out of town at the time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:12.885
but by another young scientist

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:12.885 --> 00:45:14.724
who ultimately became.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:14.730 --> 00:45:16.310
An extraordinarily competent chairman

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:16.310 --> 00:45:19.102
of Bob Kimchi in the Anderson and

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:19.102 --> 00:45:21.226
retired as chairman of the department,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:21.230 --> 00:45:23.820
but at that time the young young

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:25.702
biochemist named Darrell Ward. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:25.702 --> 00:45:27.994
Darrell said, Jim, there's a problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:29.536
I don't think that we can appoint you,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:29.540 --> 00:45:32.490
and I was just devastated.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:32.490 --> 00:45:33.794
And I said, well,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:33.794 --> 00:45:36.250
is is there some weakness in my CV?

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:36.250 --> 00:45:37.218
And he said no.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:37.218 --> 00:45:38.374
And I really, I'm sorry,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:38.374 --> 00:45:39.876
I really can't tell you, I can't,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:39.876 --> 00:45:41.184
I can't discuss it with you,

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:41.190 --> 00:45:43.210
I thought.

NOTE Confidence: 0.22019413

00:45:43.210 --> 00:45:44.188
This is incredible.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:46.430 --> 00:45:48.146
Well, and about a month later,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:48.150 --> 00:45:49.949
I received a letter from Doctor Makowski

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:49.949 --> 00:45:51.919
asking me if I would be interested

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:51.919 --> 00:45:53.635
in an assistant professor position in

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:53.691 --> 00:45:55.581
the section of virology and electron

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:55.581 --> 00:45:58.620
microscopy in the Department of Biology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:45:58.620 --> 00:46:00.762
That he had secured some funds that

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:00.762 --> 00:46:03.029
he didn't know he was going to have.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:03.030 --> 00:46:04.920
Well, in retrospect it was very

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.122
clear there was a discussion among

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:07.122 --> 00:46:09.654
the basic science group. That time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:09.654 --> 00:46:11.976
the chairman of Basic scientists met.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:11.980 --> 00:46:13.988
A couple of times a month to talk

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:13.988 --> 00:46:15.587
about future plans and so forth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:15.590 --> 00:46:17.294
And doctor Mccaskey's position was that

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:17.294 --> 00:46:19.548
if a virologist was coming to MD Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:19.550 --> 00:46:21.230
he needed to be in virology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:21.230 --> 00:46:22.589
and besides which,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:22.589 --> 00:46:25.760
Bowen had already proven himself in virology

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:25.834 --> 00:46:28.998
and probably could have a reasonable future.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.100
And ultimately, he secured approval

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:31.100 --> 00:46:33.200
to offer me an appointment,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:33.200 --> 00:46:34.520
and I immediately took it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:34.520 --> 00:46:36.662
not not realizing that any politics

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:36.662 --> 00:46:39.348
had gone on, had gone on before.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81348506

00:46:39.348 --> 00:46:42.310
The and over a period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8035637

00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:46.813
That little, that little glitch in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.8035637

00:46:46.813 --> 00:46:48.985
relationship was all slimmed down and

NOTE Confidence: 0.8035637

00:46:48.985 --> 00:46:53.790
everything went fine. The. And so in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827788984285714

00:46:56.080 --> 00:46:58.680
Once again in July.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827788984285714

00:46:58.680 --> 00:47:01.460
This time in 1964, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827788984285714

00:47:01.460 --> 00:47:03.950
I brought my wife and our

NOTE Confidence: 0.827788984285714

00:47:03.950 --> 00:47:05.600
three-week old daughter.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:07.660 --> 00:47:11.335
To Houston. To join the section of

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:11.335 --> 00:47:13.220
virology and electron microscopy and

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:13.285 --> 00:47:15.852
the Department of Biology. And to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:15.852 --> 00:47:19.788
Become a part of this dream that I had

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:19.788 --> 00:47:23.260
that I had intellectually become a part of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:23.260 --> 00:47:25.500
That's a post doc here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:27.284
And somehow I knew,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:27.284 --> 00:47:31.448
in spite of the fact that in those days.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:31.450 --> 00:47:34.985
Scientists tended to advance in their career

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:34.985 --> 00:47:38.908
by moving from institution to institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:38.910 --> 00:47:41.395
If you were being recruited

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:41.395 --> 00:47:42.886
by another institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:42.890 --> 00:47:45.755
You usually made some advancement

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:45.755 --> 00:47:48.620
as a condition of your.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:48.620 --> 00:47:50.160
Of your joining that institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:52.180
And that was a way of life in many fields

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:52.230 --> 00:47:55.588
in those days, particularly so in academics

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:55.588 --> 00:47:58.923
and particularly in biomedical science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:47:58.930 --> 00:48:01.970
You know from from the day that I

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:48:01.970 --> 00:48:04.768
walked back in to take my position.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:48:04.770 --> 00:48:07.374
And went down to the supply room.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:11.598
And was handed to lab coats.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:48:11.600 --> 00:48:14.168
Each with my name.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:48:14.168 --> 00:48:17.378
Embroidered on in blue thread.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81687155

00:48:17.380 --> 00:48:18.080
I thought.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:20.130 --> 00:48:23.050
I don't ever want to be anywhere else,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:23.050 --> 00:48:25.640
and it's going to be my job to try to

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:25.710 --> 00:48:28.314
make myself valuable enough to this

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:28.314 --> 00:48:30.680
institution that they will want me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:30.680 --> 00:48:34.610
To start. And in this, I'm not,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:34.610 --> 00:48:36.170
I'm not building any lies here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:36.170 --> 00:48:39.058
It was it was the feeling I had.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:39.060 --> 00:48:41.515
The feeling of walking into

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:41.515 --> 00:48:43.970
MD Anderson in those days.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:43.970 --> 00:48:47.198
Is hard to describe.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:47.200 --> 00:48:49.486
But it was a it was a sense of

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:49.486 --> 00:48:51.431
becoming a part of something that

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:51.431 --> 00:48:53.454
made you much bigger than you

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:53.454 --> 00:48:55.404
could ever be as an individual.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:55.410 --> 00:48:56.550
And it's not just me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:56.550 --> 00:48:58.430
Everybody I knew had that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:58.430 --> 00:48:59.885
Had that sense?

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:48:59.885 --> 00:49:02.310
Did you consider any other?

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:02.310 --> 00:49:03.960
Cancer centers in the United States

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:06.822
at that time, not at that time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:06.822 --> 00:49:09.772
I had offers from time to time, but there

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:09.772 --> 00:49:11.569
were there were two things about it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:11.570 --> 00:49:12.870
First of all, you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:12.870 --> 00:49:16.570
I knew the people of India, Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:16.570 --> 00:49:17.280
Doctor Clark,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.530
the president of this place and the guy that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:20.530 --> 00:49:22.468
That was in charge of everything.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:22.470 --> 00:49:23.952
Called me by my first name

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:23.952 --> 00:49:25.729
when he saw me in the hall.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:25.730 --> 00:49:28.466
You know, just a little green.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:28.470 --> 00:49:30.778
Virologist from the backwashes

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:30.778 --> 00:49:32.509
of Jack County.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:32.510 --> 00:49:35.345
the IT turns out that being from

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:35.345 --> 00:49:37.830
the backwash is object county.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:37.830 --> 00:49:39.810
Was not a bad thing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:39.810 --> 00:49:41.615
Because I live for part

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:41.615 --> 00:49:44.030
of my life in Fort Worth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:44.030 --> 00:49:46.300
And I went to college.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:46.300 --> 00:49:48.880
At Midwestern in Wichita Falls.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:50.836
Well, Fort Worth is the home,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:52.142
among other things,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:52.142 --> 00:49:53.878
to Texas Christian University,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:56.672
a university started by

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:56.672 --> 00:49:58.766
Doctor Clark's grandfather.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:58.770 --> 00:49:59.217
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:49:59.217 --> 00:50:02.346
I got my Bachelor of Science degree

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:02.346 --> 00:50:04.680
from Midwestern State University,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:04.680 --> 00:50:08.985
a college started by Doctor Clark's father.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:08.990 --> 00:50:10.330
And which has a building

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:10.330 --> 00:50:11.402
dedicated to him there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:11.410 --> 00:50:12.650
So I got you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:14.270
there was there was some association

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:14.270 --> 00:50:16.629
there and it was a very good association.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:16.630 --> 00:50:17.070
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:17.070 --> 00:50:18.830
And I loved it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:18.830 --> 00:50:20.650
So I became a part of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.926205745

00:50:20.650 --> 00:50:21.430
basic science program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8941722825

00:50:24.680 --> 00:50:26.328
Because of the pressure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.854325431666667

00:50:29.310 --> 00:50:31.374
Of. Of science that was coming

NOTE Confidence: 0.854325431666667

00:50:31.374 --> 00:50:33.559
in from all over the world.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:50:38.470 --> 00:50:41.046
The National Cancer Institute

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:50:41.046 --> 00:50:45.436
decided to mount. An enormous.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:50:45.436 --> 00:50:49.120
Largely contract base.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:50:49.120 --> 00:50:52.534
Coordinated research effort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:50:52.534 --> 00:50:57.086
Nationwide. And even worldwide.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:50:57.090 --> 00:51:00.378
To try to establish once and for all

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:51:00.378 --> 00:51:03.890
the viral etiology of animal and human.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:51:03.890 --> 00:51:08.530
Deceives. And so was begun.

NOTE Confidence: 0.923519564285714

00:51:08.530 --> 00:51:09.540
An initiative.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819758668181818

00:51:12.060 --> 00:51:14.450
From NCI, but scattered through

NOTE Confidence: 0.819758668181818

00:51:14.450 --> 00:51:17.440
institutions in this country and abroad.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819758668181818

00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.446
Called the special Virus cancer program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.809295703846154

00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:26.572
Doctor de Makowsky was one of

NOTE Confidence: 0.809295703846154

00:51:26.572 --> 00:51:28.458
the recipients of a of a very,

NOTE Confidence: 0.809295703846154

00:51:28.460 --> 00:51:30.170
very large set of contracts.

NOTE Confidence: 0.809295703846154

00:51:30.170 --> 00:51:31.142
There were three different

NOTE Confidence: 0.809295703846154

00:51:31.142 --> 00:51:32.114
contracts at one time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:34.210 --> 00:51:38.310
Two of them virologically based.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:38.310 --> 00:51:41.208
One largely to continue electron microscopy,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:41.210 --> 00:51:43.958
1 to develop new techniques of

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:43.958 --> 00:51:45.790
cellular and molecular biology

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:45.867 --> 00:51:48.268
to bring to bear on the problem,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:48.270 --> 00:51:50.125
and then another one dealing

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:50.125 --> 00:51:53.394
with a with a curious new set of

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:53.394 --> 00:51:55.174
organisms called market plasma.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:55.180 --> 00:51:58.161
The. The MICROPLASMA program

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:58.161 --> 00:51:59.846
did not last very long,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:51:59.850 --> 00:52:02.230
because pretty soon microplasma

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:52:02.230 --> 00:52:05.205
were more or less discounted.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:52:05.210 --> 00:52:08.297
As as having an association with cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:52:08.300 --> 00:52:09.270
But there were lots of

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:52:09.270 --> 00:52:10.240
other things to be done,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:52:10.240 --> 00:52:12.340
and many viruses to be studied and

NOTE Confidence: 0.817846822

00:52:12.340 --> 00:52:14.380
lots of studies to be carried out.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:16.430 --> 00:52:19.874
And as a result of that expansion.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:23.090
And under some political pressure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:23.090 --> 00:52:25.858
From Doctor de Mccaskey.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:30.837
Doctor Clark agreed to remove and enlarge.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:34.830
The section of virology and

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:34.830 --> 00:52:37.224
electron microscopy from.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:37.230 --> 00:52:39.250
The Department of Biology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:39.250 --> 00:52:42.280
And created a department of Virology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:44.212
the first such department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:44.212 --> 00:52:46.144
Anywhere in the University

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:46.144 --> 00:52:47.983
of Texas system now,

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:47.983 --> 00:52:50.244
there was already a department of virology

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:50.244 --> 00:52:52.258
at Baylor just across the street,

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:55.050
operated by Doctor Melnick and

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:55.050 --> 00:52:57.840
Doctor Melnick and Doctor Mccaskey.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:00.874
Were competitors.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:00.874 --> 00:53:03.908
And friendly.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:03.910 --> 00:53:07.095
Rivals and mutual critics for all the

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:07.095 --> 00:53:11.128
years of their lives and and I used

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:11.128 --> 00:53:13.708
the word friendly somewhat generously.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:13.710 --> 00:53:15.970
It was not always friendly,

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:15.970 --> 00:53:17.950
but it was always competitive.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:17.950 --> 00:53:21.430
But when the need for cooperation came down,

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:21.430 --> 00:53:23.998
they were always there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.170
To cooperate because they understood

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:26.170 --> 00:53:28.340
that virology was important and

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:28.411 --> 00:53:30.518
that virology had a role to play.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:30.520 --> 00:53:34.390
Doctor Melnick's work was crucial.

NOTE Confidence: 0.907169695714286

00:53:34.390 --> 00:53:36.260
In the advances against polio.

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:38.500 --> 00:53:42.076
Doctor John Mccaskey's had been seminal.

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:42.080 --> 00:53:45.836
And in establishing an international effort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:48.480
To determine whether or not viruses

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:50.810
were associated with human cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:50.810 --> 00:53:53.000
And what to do about that

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:55.510
if it turned out to be true?

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:53:55.510 --> 00:54:00.055
And so they're grew in Houston at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:00.060 --> 00:54:03.288
One of the largest and most

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:03.288 --> 00:54:04.902
influential biological presences

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:04.902 --> 00:54:08.006
that existed in any academic arena.

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:08.010 --> 00:54:10.754
In the country and there was also

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:10.754 --> 00:54:12.674
a tremendous coordinated effort in

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:12.674 --> 00:54:15.562
the nation among this new breed

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:15.562 --> 00:54:18.327
of virologists who call themselves

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:18.327 --> 00:54:20.782
viral oncologists, that is,

NOTE Confidence: 0.69653997

00:54:20.782 --> 00:54:22.206
virologists who study cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8954064

00:54:24.390 --> 00:54:26.700
It was a tremendous time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8954064

00:54:26.700 --> 00:54:28.030
Never worked so hard or

NOTE Confidence: 0.8954064

00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:29.940
had so much fun in my life.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8954064

00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:31.510
But at the same time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.873769887

00:54:34.210 --> 00:54:36.538
It was. It was my own

NOTE Confidence: 0.873769887

00:54:36.538 --> 00:54:38.090
personal natural bent to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.270
To want. They have a larger

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:42.270 --> 00:54:44.266
role in MD Anderson, too,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:44.266 --> 00:54:47.746
for one thing, our laboratories.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:47.750 --> 00:54:50.998
Were were in lease space in the building.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:52.720
A block away from Indiana.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:52.720 --> 00:54:54.057
And that was a problem for me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:54.060 --> 00:54:57.116
I, you know, I like to be there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:57.120 --> 00:54:58.101
Every, every day.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:54:58.101 --> 00:55:00.390
And and I had colleagues who said,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:00.390 --> 00:55:01.560
well, you know, you're a,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:01.560 --> 00:55:03.015
you're a frustrated physician and

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:03.015 --> 00:55:05.260
if you had a brain in your head.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:05.260 --> 00:55:07.332
You would quit today and apply for

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:07.332 --> 00:55:09.034
medical school and go to medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:09.034 --> 00:55:11.190
school and come back and do the thing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:12.210
That you dream of knowing,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:12.210 --> 00:55:15.698
namely, working with agents.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:15.700 --> 00:55:20.506
And that was a little bit of tension within.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:20.510 --> 00:55:22.241
Within myself for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:22.241 --> 00:55:25.126
For much of my career,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:25.130 --> 00:55:28.019
and it guided some of the things that I

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:28.019 --> 00:55:30.968
did organizationally and any interest.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:30.970 --> 00:55:34.066
Did you ever have any contact with patrons?

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:34.070 --> 00:55:36.050
In a role that you.

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:36.050 --> 00:55:36.734
Certainly not,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:36.734 --> 00:55:38.444
not in a treatment role,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:38.450 --> 00:55:40.698
but I got to know many of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:40.698 --> 00:55:42.740
patients who participated in our

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:42.740 --> 00:55:45.050
research programs and when we were,

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:45.050 --> 00:55:46.718
when we were working on studies

NOTE Confidence: 0.727598322

00:55:46.718 --> 00:55:47.552
and taking notes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82362935

00:55:50.150 --> 00:55:53.458
I very often went.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82362935

00:55:53.460 --> 00:55:55.756
To be with the patients. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82362935

00:55:55.756 --> 00:55:58.740
Doctor Clark always wanted.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82362935

00:55:58.740 --> 00:56:00.530
A patient to clearly understand.

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:02.830 --> 00:56:04.909
If he or she were involved in

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:04.909 --> 00:56:07.051
some sort of science and that

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:07.051 --> 00:56:09.409
the science was in fact designed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:09.410 --> 00:56:11.210
To help them, and certainly not to hurt them,

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:11.210 --> 00:56:13.310
and not to compromise their

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:13.310 --> 00:56:15.080
treatment in any way.

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:15.080 --> 00:56:17.330
And Doctor Clark wanted everyone

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:17.330 --> 00:56:20.644
who was involved in the project

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:20.644 --> 00:56:22.387
acknowledged and known.

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:22.390 --> 00:56:24.982
But I probably spent more time

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:24.982 --> 00:56:27.650
with patients than I needed to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:27.650 --> 00:56:31.928
The. Simply because I enjoyed

NOTE Confidence: 0.889927226842105

00:56:31.928 --> 00:56:34.460
enjoyed that that aspect of it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83947319

00:56:38.100 --> 00:56:41.328
But almost an accident.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83947319

00:56:41.330 --> 00:56:45.677
Got me first involved in MD Anderson's

NOTE Confidence: 0.83947319

00:56:45.677 --> 00:56:47.780
administrative activity. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861377169090909

00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:52.975
Through the influence of Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.861377169090909

00:56:52.975 --> 00:56:55.550
Clark and the very excellent

NOTE Confidence: 0.861377169090909

00:56:55.644 --> 00:56:59.886
stewardship of Doctor Felix Haas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861377169090909

00:56:59.886 --> 00:57:03.060
The institution received. A grant.

NOTE Confidence: 0.776293822857143

00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:10.668
That that allowed a peer committee to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:13.340 --> 00:57:17.631
To sub award small research grants to

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:17.631 --> 00:57:21.114
investigators based on an internal peer

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:21.114 --> 00:57:25.720
review of of the quality of their projects.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:25.720 --> 00:57:27.608
What period was this?

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:27.608 --> 00:57:30.925
This was in the mid 60s, OK,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:30.925 --> 00:57:36.600
we still we still back talking 6566, OK.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:36.600 --> 00:57:39.948
I had met through.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:39.950 --> 00:57:41.298
Through some other reason,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:41.298 --> 00:57:43.320
and I'm and I don't recall

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:43.386 --> 00:57:44.846
exactly how we had met.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:44.850 --> 00:57:46.798
The head of Anesthesiology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:46.798 --> 00:57:49.720
whose name was was William Derrick.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:49.720 --> 00:57:51.388
Doctor Derek was a wonderful man.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:51.390 --> 00:57:54.350
He became a good friend and a mentor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:54.350 --> 00:57:56.886
And he asked me if I would serve

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:57:56.886 --> 00:58:00.356
as one of the members of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:00.356 --> 00:58:02.560
Institutional Research Grant Committee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:02.560 --> 00:58:04.052
This would probably have

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:04.052 --> 00:58:06.680
been in the mid to late 60s.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:06.680 --> 00:58:09.536
The I spoke with Doctor Mccaskey about that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:09.540 --> 00:58:10.348
and Doctor Mccaskey thought

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:10.348 --> 00:58:11.560
this would be a good idea.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:11.560 --> 00:58:13.390
It would be a contribution to

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:13.390 --> 00:58:15.415
the institution and it also might

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:15.415 --> 00:58:16.895
give virologists some insights

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:16.895 --> 00:58:18.790
and data access these funds.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:18.790 --> 00:58:21.044
And so I was appointed to the

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:21.044 --> 00:58:22.630
Institutional Research Grant Committee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:22.630 --> 00:58:24.590
It was the first administrative

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:24.590 --> 00:58:26.550
role that I had outside.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:26.550 --> 00:58:30.036
Of virology, although I was already acting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:30.040 --> 00:58:34.576
As as deputy head of virology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:34.580 --> 00:58:36.421
simply because I was close to Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:36.421 --> 00:58:38.679
Mccaskey and if he asked me to do something,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:38.680 --> 00:58:41.704
I tried to get it done for him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:41.710 --> 00:58:44.335
Before you go on beyond this period,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:46.990
there was one question that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:46.990 --> 00:58:49.086
Popped up at me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:49.086 --> 00:58:52.230
I noticed that you had a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:52.230 --> 00:58:55.716
An association with the dental school.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:55.720 --> 00:58:58.840
Yes, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:00.910
That was in another persona that

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:00.910 --> 00:59:03.160
I that I worked to develop.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:03.160 --> 00:59:05.155
And that was while I was at

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:05.155 --> 00:59:07.119
Oregon State and Graduate School.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:07.120 --> 00:59:08.590
I was a teaching assistant for

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:08.590 --> 00:59:10.138
practically the whole time I was there,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:10.140 --> 00:59:14.628
along with my research assistantship and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:14.630 --> 00:59:15.610
And I love to teach.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:15.610 --> 00:59:16.398
I love to be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:16.398 --> 00:59:18.489
I love to be in front of a classroom.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:18.490 --> 00:59:20.026
I love to be with students.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:20.030 --> 00:59:22.500
I loved everything about teaching.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:25.926
And so one of the aspects.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:25.930 --> 00:59:28.054
That I had discussed with Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:28.054 --> 00:59:30.210
Mccaskey and returning to MD Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:30.210 --> 00:59:32.619
was would I have opportunities to teach?

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:32.620 --> 00:59:33.972
And he said yes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:33.972 --> 00:59:36.563
He would recommend me for a membership

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:36.563 --> 00:59:39.425
in in the growing affiliation or

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:39.425 --> 00:59:42.479
Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:46.122
And he had some associations with

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:46.122 --> 00:59:49.298
Baylor and with the dental school where

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:49.298 --> 00:59:52.450
I might be able to do some teaching.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:52.450 --> 00:59:54.290
And just about that time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:54.290 --> 00:59:57.698
one of the professors at the dental school.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:57.700 --> 00:59:59.335
Developed an affiliation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

00:59:59.335 --> 01:00:02.060
With the dental science program

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:02.060 --> 01:00:05.304
with the Air Force out of Wilford

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:05.304 --> 01:00:06.956
Hall in San Antonio,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:10.980
and they developed a curriculum.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:15.486
To teach masters level dental pathology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:15.490 --> 01:00:17.562
And one of the things they had

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:17.562 --> 01:00:19.930
to have was a microbiology unit,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:19.930 --> 01:00:21.930
but they had no money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:21.930 --> 01:00:23.790
To pay anybody to teach microbiology

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:23.790 --> 01:00:25.595
and they went looking for somebody

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:25.595 --> 01:00:27.119
who would do it for free.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:27.120 --> 01:00:29.130
And when I got the opportunity

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:29.130 --> 01:00:30.135
I went through,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:30.140 --> 01:00:31.904
they asked Doctor to Makowsky if he

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:31.904 --> 01:00:34.056
would do it and he did not have time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:34.060 --> 01:00:35.572
And so he asked me if I would

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:35.572 --> 01:00:36.720
like to do it for him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870976697619048

01:00:36.720 --> 01:00:39.877
And that developed an almost career long

NOTE Confidence: 0.878962284

01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:42.640
affiliation with the pathology group.

NOTE Confidence: 0.878962284

01:00:42.640 --> 01:00:44.896
At the middle school and I taught biology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.878962284

01:00:44.900 --> 01:00:46.460
microbiology and mycoplasma pology

NOTE Confidence: 0.878962284

01:00:46.460 --> 01:00:49.236
for a time to to that group

NOTE Confidence: 0.878962284

01:00:49.236 --> 01:00:51.384
just for the love of teaching.

NOTE Confidence: 0.878962284

01:00:51.390 --> 01:00:52.830
Did this have to do with?

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:01.576
Cancer of the of the oral cavity well,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:01.580 --> 01:01:03.720
only peripherally at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:03.720 --> 01:01:06.863
The in order to complete a master

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:06.863 --> 01:01:09.520
of dental science curriculum in

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:09.520 --> 01:01:11.220
pathology at the dental school,

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:11.220 --> 01:01:13.698
they had to have a unit

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:13.698 --> 01:01:14.937
in general microbiology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:14.940 --> 01:01:17.025
And we taught actually very

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:17.025 --> 01:01:18.928
little cancer at that time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:18.928 --> 01:01:21.064
The pathologists taught their own oral

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:21.064 --> 01:01:22.856
screening and things of that sort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:22.860 --> 01:01:24.524
I taught straightforward virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.81945528375

01:01:24.524 --> 01:01:26.188
We talked about it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:38.510 --> 01:01:41.126
Alright Sir, this is side 3,

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:41.130 --> 01:01:44.780
continuing the interview. With Mr.

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:44.780 --> 01:01:46.310
Bell, Doctor Bell we were Speaking

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:46.310 --> 01:01:48.751
of of of the kind of teaching that we

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:48.751 --> 01:01:50.710
were doing at the Science Institute.

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:50.710 --> 01:01:52.902
Yeah, the IT was one of the many

NOTE Confidence: 0.845235556666667

01:01:52.902 --> 01:01:54.747
opportunities that that came to all of us.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830618264090909

01:01:56.900 --> 01:01:58.820
For teaching, we've got to teach

NOTE Confidence: 0.830618264090909

01:01:58.820 --> 01:02:00.465
graduate students the I also

NOTE Confidence: 0.830618264090909

01:02:00.465 --> 01:02:02.586
taught in the in the Baylor Saint

NOTE Confidence: 0.830618264090909

01:02:02.586 --> 01:02:04.339
Luke's Medical technology program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:06.550 --> 01:02:08.909
It was great fun teaching the dentist.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:08.910 --> 01:02:11.088
I made a few trips over to Wilford Hall

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:11.088 --> 01:02:13.360
to give special lectures in virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:18.858
For. For the people over there and

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:18.858 --> 01:02:21.162
there was a chance to go around among

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:21.162 --> 01:02:22.887
different universities and talk to

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:22.887 --> 01:02:24.951
people and somewhere along the line.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:27.508
One of the one of the personal

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:27.508 --> 01:02:29.640
loves that that I developed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:29.640 --> 01:02:32.880
Was helping non medical,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:35.310
non scientific people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:35.310 --> 01:02:38.258
Learn more about cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:38.260 --> 01:02:40.184
Because Doctor Clark always

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:40.184 --> 01:02:44.429
impressed on us that. That a patient.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:44.430 --> 01:02:48.570
Was an essential part of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:48.570 --> 01:02:51.824
Of the treatment team. And that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:51.824 --> 01:02:55.466
The more everyone knew about cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:55.470 --> 01:02:56.988
The better off.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:56.988 --> 01:02:59.480
We were, and in later years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:02.561
and this will come up again in later years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:02.561 --> 01:03:05.397
I spent a lot of my spare time just

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:05.397 --> 01:03:08.015
talking to anybody who wanted to hear,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:08.020 --> 01:03:11.188
to Rotary clubs and to professional

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:11.188 --> 01:03:12.772
organizations and Chambers

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:12.772 --> 01:03:15.178
of Commerce and so forth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:15.180 --> 01:03:16.120
About cancer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:16.120 --> 01:03:18.000
particularly about cancer prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:22.290
And that interest led me to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:22.290 --> 01:03:24.783
To one of the roles that I had in

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:24.783 --> 01:03:27.240
the Anderson in my later career.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:27.240 --> 01:03:29.536
That that I'm the most excited and the

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:29.536 --> 01:03:31.658
proudest of and we'll talk about that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:31.660 --> 01:03:32.470
But later on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:32.470 --> 01:03:34.090
But you had asked me about

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:34.090 --> 01:03:35.577
teaching in the dental school.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:35.580 --> 01:03:36.003
Yeah,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:36.003 --> 01:03:38.964
that was just one of those opportunities

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:38.964 --> 01:03:41.099
that many of us academics.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:41.100 --> 01:03:43.053
Sought because it gave us a chance

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:43.053 --> 01:03:45.459
to be in front of the classroom.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:45.460 --> 01:03:47.218
But I taught very little oncology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:47.220 --> 01:03:48.246
I taught straight.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:48.246 --> 01:03:49.956
Biology was very good farming

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:49.956 --> 01:03:52.192
because it it made me be the best

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:52.192 --> 01:03:53.621
student in the class because

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:53.621 --> 01:03:55.776
things were developing so rapidly,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:55.780 --> 01:03:57.856
and all the fields of biomedical

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:57.856 --> 01:03:59.990
sciences and biology in particular.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:03:59.990 --> 01:04:01.887
That that you had to really keep

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:04:01.887 --> 01:04:04.147
after to keep up and the and the

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:04:04.147 --> 01:04:05.840
best incentive to keep after what

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:07.816
was going on in your own field was

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:04:07.816 --> 01:04:09.666
to have to talk to groups about

NOTE Confidence: 0.84137203

01:04:09.666 --> 01:04:11.760
it and and that was what we did.

NOTE Confidence: 0.758072963333333

01:04:14.950 --> 01:04:16.660
Returning to to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:18.720 --> 01:04:20.680
The Institutional Research Grant Committee,

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:20.680 --> 01:04:23.039
the evolution of that experience was was

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:25.557
after about a year on that committee,

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:25.560 --> 01:04:28.432
doctor Derek asked me if I would be

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:28.432 --> 01:04:30.725
Vice chairman and to chair the group

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:30.725 --> 01:04:33.810
when he was out of town. Which I did.

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:33.810 --> 01:04:36.470
And ultimately when he retired as chairman,

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:36.470 --> 01:04:38.470
I became chairman and that

NOTE Confidence: 0.775177876

01:04:38.470 --> 01:04:40.070
was basically the 1st.

NOTE Confidence: 0.799348505

01:04:42.610 --> 01:04:45.450
Administrative role that that I

NOTE Confidence: 0.799348505

01:04:45.450 --> 01:04:49.770
ever had had at MD Anderson and

NOTE Confidence: 0.799348505

01:04:49.770 --> 01:04:53.250
and made an interesting discovery.

NOTE Confidence: 0.799348505

01:04:53.250 --> 01:04:55.906
The. And this was,

NOTE Confidence: 0.799348505

01:04:55.906 --> 01:04:57.658
this was one of those discoveries

NOTE Confidence: 0.799348505

01:04:57.658 --> 01:04:59.748
that a scientist makes that is both.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:02.290 --> 01:05:08.510
Tantalizing. And horrifying. And that was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:08.510 --> 01:05:10.610
That I really enjoyed administration

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:10.610 --> 01:05:13.936
and I felt like I had a natural flair.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:13.940 --> 01:05:16.455
For it because I like

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:16.455 --> 01:05:18.970
the enabling part of it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:18.970 --> 01:05:22.650
You know I loved to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:22.650 --> 01:05:23.990
To be apart, for example,

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:23.990 --> 01:05:25.640
of awarding a smaller research

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:25.640 --> 01:05:28.114
grant and then a year later reading

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:28.114 --> 01:05:30.014
the progress report and see.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:30.020 --> 01:05:31.040
What could have been done?

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:31.040 --> 01:05:33.104
And of course scientists very quickly

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:33.104 --> 01:05:35.159
learned the politics of doing that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:35.160 --> 01:05:37.911
and they always have some sort of

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:37.911 --> 01:05:41.358
language in a progress report that says.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:42.728
Without support of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:42.728 --> 01:05:43.754
Institutional research grant,

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:45.376
we would not have been able to do

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:45.376 --> 01:05:47.015
this and such we have not been

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:47.015 --> 01:05:48.490
able to have published this work.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:48.490 --> 01:05:49.770
We would not been able

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:49.770 --> 01:05:50.794
to make this discovery.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:52.850
We have not been able.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:52.850 --> 01:05:55.391
To apply for a much larger grant

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:55.391 --> 01:05:58.111
which we have just received and I'm

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:05:58.111 --> 01:06:00.830
thinking wow this this is a way.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:06:00.830 --> 01:06:04.029
That that basically in our spare time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:06:04.030 --> 01:06:07.138
We can make a particular contribution

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:06:07.138 --> 01:06:09.681
towards advancing the institution in

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:06:09.681 --> 01:06:12.425
fields that we have no personal ability.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:06:12.430 --> 01:06:14.670
So I really like that committee work.

NOTE Confidence: 0.65218276

01:06:14.670 --> 01:06:15.220
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:19.180 --> 01:06:22.813
Doctor Mccaskey was very supportive in this

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:22.813 --> 01:06:26.746
the he expected time given back in return.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:26.750 --> 01:06:29.070
But there was an oversight

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:29.070 --> 01:06:30.926
committee for all research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:30.930 --> 01:06:32.103
In the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:32.103 --> 01:06:34.449
he made me the departmental representative

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:34.449 --> 01:06:37.330
for that group called the Research Committee,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:37.330 --> 01:06:39.898
which basically was the approval mechanism

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:39.898 --> 01:06:42.880
for any research that got done in India.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:45.645
Anderson there was a clinical research group,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:45.650 --> 01:06:49.460
basic science research group and all.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:49.460 --> 01:06:50.420
All projects.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:50.420 --> 01:06:52.820
When Doctor Clark was president,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:52.820 --> 01:06:55.524
all projects had to be reviewed by a

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:55.524 --> 01:06:58.008
peer group or representative group.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:06:58.010 --> 01:07:00.100
Called the Research Committee and

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:00.100 --> 01:07:02.900
approved are there could be no

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:02.900 --> 01:07:05.732
institutional facilities. Our resources.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:05.732 --> 01:07:08.836
Allocated to that project.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:10.380
Now, this was your first

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:10.380 --> 01:07:11.612
taste of administrative work,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:11.620 --> 01:07:13.348
is that was my first taste

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:13.348 --> 01:07:14.212
of administrative work.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:14.220 --> 01:07:16.418
Did did you see it as a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:16.420 --> 01:07:19.157
Well, you enjoyed it. As you stated,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:19.160 --> 01:07:21.757
some people reviewed it as a burden,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:23.180
but I didn't. You didn't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:23.180 --> 01:07:25.160
I didn't. That's rather unusual.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:25.160 --> 01:07:26.672
Usually teaches us. Yeah.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:26.672 --> 01:07:28.562
And it actually bothered me

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:28.562 --> 01:07:30.596
a little that I liked it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:31.526
You know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.780440446

01:07:31.526 --> 01:07:31.989
the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:36.170 --> 01:07:39.830
But there it was, you know, and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:39.830 --> 01:07:41.630
And much later in my career,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:41.630 --> 01:07:45.770
I would I would look back on that as a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:45.770 --> 01:07:48.110
As an important.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:48.110 --> 01:07:50.972
Kind of turning point in my

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:50.972 --> 01:07:52.403
ultimate association with.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:52.410 --> 01:07:54.645
With MD Anderson?

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:54.645 --> 01:07:58.370
Well, this this brought us.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:07:58.370 --> 01:08:00.890
Well into the 70s now and and the

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:08:00.890 --> 01:08:03.560
70s were a period of growth in the,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83956765

01:08:03.560 --> 01:08:04.838
Anderson was adding.

NOTE Confidence: 0.813591435

01:08:08.250 --> 01:08:14.150
Staff. Faculty programs. Space.

NOTE Confidence: 0.813591435

01:08:14.150 --> 01:08:17.170
Funding. Uh. Virology was

NOTE Confidence: 0.813591435

01:08:17.170 --> 01:08:20.945
proceeding and growing we had.

NOTE Confidence: 0.779467198571429

01:08:23.890 --> 01:08:28.230
A virology faculty. With this huge contract,

NOTE Confidence: 0.779467198571429

01:08:28.230 --> 01:08:34.059
program had gone from 4. To about 20.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:36.190 --> 01:08:42.726
The. 15 of those were paid on funds

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:42.730 --> 01:08:45.990
allocated through the contract.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:45.990 --> 01:08:48.874
We thought of it as soft money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:50.728
The in those days,

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:50.728 --> 01:08:53.500
grant funds were considered soft money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:56.896
State funds were considered hard money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:08:56.900 --> 01:09:00.120
And the transition and your

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:00.120 --> 01:09:02.696
perception of the institutions.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:02.700 --> 01:09:05.408
Sense of your value.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:05.410 --> 01:09:06.358
Was the movement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:06.358 --> 01:09:08.987
From your of your salary and of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:08.987 --> 01:09:11.087
salary of your own personal staff.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:11.090 --> 01:09:13.350
From soft to hard money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:13.350 --> 01:09:15.120
And that was an important concept

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:15.120 --> 01:09:17.099
and one that we ultimately had

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:17.099 --> 01:09:18.944
to educate ourselves out of,

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:18.950 --> 01:09:20.696
and one that was a hard

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:20.696 --> 01:09:21.860
transition from many people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:21.860 --> 01:09:23.844
And I'm not sure that everyone has fully

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:23.844 --> 01:09:25.789
made that intellectual transition yet.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:25.790 --> 01:09:28.126
But in those days it was very crisp.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:30.530
When you renew, you were on soft money,

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:30.530 --> 01:09:32.318
but when you begin to establish

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:32.318 --> 01:09:33.510
yourself in the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:33.510 --> 01:09:35.790
you moved to hard money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:35.790 --> 01:09:37.002
The I paid, essentially.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:37.002 --> 01:09:39.130
All of my salary for the 1st,

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:39.130 --> 01:09:41.263
9:00 or so years that I was at MD

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:41.263 --> 01:09:43.278
Anderson begin to move partly to hard

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:43.278 --> 01:09:45.279
money and then totally to hard money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:45.280 --> 01:09:47.950
And it was then that I that I really felt

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:48.018 --> 01:09:50.556
like that that MD Anderson saw me as a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:50.560 --> 01:09:53.536
As a potential long term member.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:53.540 --> 01:09:55.440
Of the basic science faculty,

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:55.440 --> 01:09:58.830
the when committee assignments and other

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:09:58.830 --> 01:10:03.680
administrative jobs came along the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:08.924
I tried to be there to. To take them over.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:08.924 --> 01:10:11.154
When Doctor Mccaskey organized the

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:11.154 --> 01:10:13.689
Department of Virology into subsections.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:13.690 --> 01:10:19.180
The. The I took over the section.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:19.180 --> 01:10:23.116
Of of tumor virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:23.116 --> 01:10:24.100
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:24.100 --> 01:10:25.750
And had a small organizational

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:25.750 --> 01:10:27.070
structure within the department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:27.070 --> 01:10:29.692
The doctor to Mccaskey was was

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:29.692 --> 01:10:31.440
a very centralized person.

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:31.440 --> 01:10:33.883
He wanted to know and to essentially

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:33.883 --> 01:10:36.282
be in charge of everything that

NOTE Confidence: 0.49604896

01:10:36.282 --> 01:10:38.417
went on within his framework.

NOTE Confidence: 0.924234606

01:10:40.720 --> 01:10:43.971
But in his own way, he was actually

NOTE Confidence: 0.924234606

01:10:43.971 --> 01:10:46.279
following Doctor Clark's lead.

NOTE Confidence: 0.924234606

01:10:46.280 --> 01:10:48.974
Because because Doctor Clark was a

NOTE Confidence: 0.924234606

01:10:48.974 --> 01:10:51.838
living example of the old biblical

NOTE Confidence: 0.924234606

01:10:51.838 --> 01:10:54.784
adage about never a Sparrow falling.

NOTE Confidence: 0.924234606

01:10:54.790 --> 01:10:57.478
The. Doctor Clark knew.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:10:59.950 --> 01:11:01.978
How much we'll spend on pencils

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:01.978 --> 01:11:03.330
in the institution annually.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:03.330 --> 01:11:06.246
And he had an enormous in the early days

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:06.246 --> 01:11:08.160
particularly had an enormous capacity.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:08.160 --> 01:11:10.788
For for understanding and and of

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:10.788 --> 01:11:12.540
assimilating the information into

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:12.610 --> 01:11:16.380
the into the larger picture. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:16.380 --> 01:11:19.980
And that was what made him such a

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:19.980 --> 01:11:21.500
tremendous organizational leader.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:24.260
He never lost sight of the big picture,

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:24.260 --> 01:11:27.218
and he saw where every individual

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:27.218 --> 01:11:28.204
little component.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:28.210 --> 01:11:30.586
Fitting in both present and future.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:30.590 --> 01:11:35.160
It's incredible. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:35.160 --> 01:11:37.128
I know no one that didn't that didn't

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:37.128 --> 01:11:39.217
look on him with a little bit of awe

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:39.220 --> 01:11:41.848
and a tremendous amount of admiration.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:41.850 --> 01:11:44.367
And if you made him angry, there got to

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:44.367 --> 01:11:46.790
be a considerable level of fear in there too.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:46.790 --> 01:11:47.855
Because doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:47.855 --> 01:11:50.909
Was a hard man to have angry at you?

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:50.910 --> 01:11:53.898
The. I'm one of the lucky ones.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:53.900 --> 01:11:56.090
I don't think I ever did.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:56.090 --> 01:11:57.274
The eventually.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:11:57.274 --> 01:12:00.826
As age and health problems begin

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:00.826 --> 01:12:03.790
to overtake Doctor Mackowski.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:03.790 --> 01:12:06.640
Doctor Clark was growing and

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:07.780
completely restructuring.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:07.780 --> 01:12:12.148
Basic science program at MD Anderson to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:12.150 --> 01:12:13.110
To fit in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:13.110 --> 01:12:15.350
To to the new knowledge and and

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:15.431 --> 01:12:17.765
and the new availability and the

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:17.765 --> 01:12:20.161
new sense of where the nation

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:20.161 --> 01:12:22.666
and the world were going in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:22.666 --> 01:12:24.156
biomedical sciences as as they

NOTE Confidence: 0.801316451

01:12:24.156 --> 01:12:25.600
related to Cancer Research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.31904483

01:12:28.010 --> 01:12:32.965
The. One of the things that

NOTE Confidence: 0.31904483

01:12:32.965 --> 01:12:34.770
Doctor Clark. Foresaw.

NOTE Confidence: 0.658897378333333

01:12:36.950 --> 01:12:40.974
That that some of us considered a

NOTE Confidence: 0.658897378333333

01:12:40.974 --> 01:12:43.566
bad step a step backward at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.72151697

01:12:45.650 --> 01:12:51.014
Was. He saw that that the virology

NOTE Confidence: 0.72151697

01:12:51.014 --> 01:12:53.210
component of biomedical science

NOTE Confidence: 0.72151697

01:12:53.300 --> 01:12:56.450
was changing from a more classical.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:12:59.660 --> 01:13:04.115
Causation, symptomatology, treatment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:04.115 --> 01:13:07.670
Approach. To a much more molecular.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:07.670 --> 01:13:10.425
Approach he wanted to understand

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:10.425 --> 01:13:13.180
how viral genes interacted with

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:13.270 --> 01:13:16.042
host genes to turn a normal cell

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:16.042 --> 01:13:21.008
into a cancer cell. Uh. He felt.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:21.010 --> 01:13:24.620
Now that chemical cancer causation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:24.620 --> 01:13:26.852
And environmental cancer concerns

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:26.852 --> 01:13:29.642
were coming to the forefront.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8080608625

01:13:29.650 --> 01:13:34.380
Both in science and in and in practice. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:36.850 --> 01:13:39.242
He began to believe in his own mind

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:39.242 --> 01:13:41.529
that there was a common denominator.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:41.530 --> 01:13:44.608
Between chemical carcinogenesis.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:44.610 --> 01:13:46.910
And when Doctor Mccaskey retired

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:46.910 --> 01:13:49.210
as chairman of the department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:49.210 --> 01:13:52.213
Doctor Clark called me into his office

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:52.213 --> 01:13:56.210
and he said Jim. Here is my plan.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:13:56.210 --> 01:14:00.570
And if you want to be a part of this plan.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:00.570 --> 01:14:01.738
It will be great.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:01.738 --> 01:14:04.905
And if you don't, I'll allow you to step

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:04.905 --> 01:14:08.585
aside and do your thing and. And I'll find.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:08.585 --> 01:14:10.960
I'll find someone else, he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:13.090
I want to reincorporate your department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:13.090 --> 01:14:16.074
I want to change its name from virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:16.080 --> 01:14:20.058
To molecular carcinogenesis.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:20.060 --> 01:14:25.690
And I want. Due to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:25.690 --> 01:14:29.390
Develop affiliations with the other

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:29.390 --> 01:14:32.350
fundamental carcinogenesis programs in

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:32.350 --> 01:14:34.681
the institution and at a new facility

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:34.681 --> 01:14:37.588
that I have in mind up near Smithville,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:37.590 --> 01:14:40.558
which I'm going to call the Environmental

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:40.558 --> 01:14:42.969
Science Park I visited there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:42.970 --> 01:14:43.918
Facility. Yes it is.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:43.918 --> 01:14:45.340
It's hidden away in the woods.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:45.340 --> 01:14:46.840
You'd never know it was there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:48.000
And you will interview,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:50.667
I'm sure someone who will tell you how Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:50.667 --> 01:14:52.697
Clark developed that facility and it is

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:52.754 --> 01:14:55.114
one of the remarkable stories of his career.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:55.120 --> 01:14:56.240
I know a little bit about it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:56.240 --> 01:14:57.380
but I was not involved.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:57.380 --> 01:14:59.198
First hand the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:14:59.198 --> 01:15:02.228
And I said Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:02.230 --> 01:15:05.374
I see my role here as as helping

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:05.374 --> 01:15:07.760
you carry out your vision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:07.760 --> 01:15:08.346
You know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:08.346 --> 01:15:10.397
I'm hoping that you that you don't

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:10.397 --> 01:15:12.529
foresee a time when I'll no longer be

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:12.529 --> 01:15:14.419
valuable to you in the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:14.420 --> 01:15:16.898
but I said you tell me what

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:16.898 --> 01:15:18.810
you would like done and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:18.810 --> 01:15:21.050
I'll do my best to do it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:21.050 --> 01:15:22.610
and if I can't do it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:22.610 --> 01:15:27.050
I'll step aside and move and no problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885931002142857

01:15:27.050 --> 01:15:28.040
And so.

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:30.190 --> 01:15:32.370
To doctor Mccaskey's Heartbroke because

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:32.370 --> 01:15:35.330
he was still around at that time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:35.330 --> 01:15:37.784
This was in about 1973 and

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:37.784 --> 01:15:40.589
74 when we were doing this,

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:40.590 --> 01:15:41.766
we changed the name of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:41.766 --> 01:15:42.930
department from the third property,

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:42.930 --> 01:15:46.577
carcinogenesis and begin to to sort of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.785331950833333

01:15:46.580 --> 01:15:47.480
Restructure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:15:49.790 --> 01:15:52.470
How we were operating?

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:15:52.470 --> 01:15:55.742
The in the mean time other other basic

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:15:55.742 --> 01:15:58.568
science programs were growing and expanding

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:15:58.570 --> 01:16:00.955
and restructuring and also clinical

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:16:00.955 --> 01:16:02.863
departments were developing really,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:16:02.870 --> 01:16:05.710
really strong basic science programs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:16:05.710 --> 01:16:08.755
There was a time at the time

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:16:08.755 --> 01:16:12.295
when when MD Anderson had a A

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:16:12.295 --> 01:16:14.950
A doctorate faculty that is.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7641477825

01:16:14.950 --> 01:16:18.500
MD's, PhD DBMS and DSS.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:21.620 --> 01:16:26.860
Of of around 400. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:26.860 --> 01:16:28.806
At least half of those basic scientists

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:28.806 --> 01:16:30.230
were actually clinical departments,

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:30.230 --> 01:16:33.158
not basic science departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:33.160 --> 01:16:35.746
Matter of of some tension within

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:35.746 --> 01:16:38.570
the faculty of the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:38.570 --> 01:16:42.693
but yet something that that I think

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:42.693 --> 01:16:46.550
ultimately greatly enhanced. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:46.550 --> 01:16:48.650
The overall research effort and

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:48.650 --> 01:16:50.750
enhancing the overall research effort

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:50.819 --> 01:16:52.709
was always doctor Clark's goal.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:52.710 --> 01:16:55.478
If it stepped on the toes of some

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:55.478 --> 01:16:56.990
little individual political unit

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:56.990 --> 01:16:59.622
that Clark was prepared to do that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:16:59.630 --> 01:17:02.020
Prepared to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:17:02.020 --> 01:17:05.818
To soothe the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:17:05.820 --> 01:17:09.350
The hurt feelings were possible.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:17:09.350 --> 01:17:10.966
To compromise if essential.

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:17:10.966 --> 01:17:13.818
And to have a really nice going

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:17:13.818 --> 01:17:16.594
away party if that was the only if,

NOTE Confidence: 0.665506498

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:17.869
that was the only way it could be done.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:20.130 --> 01:17:24.378
And over the years, we saw examples of

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:24.378 --> 01:17:28.300
each of each of those scenarios and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:28.300 --> 01:17:32.485
And you know. A few people left in anger.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:32.490 --> 01:17:35.050
Few people left with a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:35.050 --> 01:17:39.103
With a sense of their own particular

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:39.103 --> 01:17:41.980
value being inadequately recognized.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:41.980 --> 01:17:44.122
But no one ever left with the idea that

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:44.122 --> 01:17:46.196
Doctor Clark made a mistake about the

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:46.196 --> 01:17:49.639
vision of the institution. He never, ever.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891662547777778

01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:52.660
Took his eyes off of it. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:17:54.670 --> 01:17:57.430
The old adage of making no

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:17:57.430 --> 01:17:59.900
small plans was a real.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:17:59.900 --> 01:18:02.770
Day-to-day working.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:02.770 --> 01:18:06.375
Piece of theology for Doctor Clark and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:06.380 --> 01:18:07.760
And he stayed with it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:09.248
What were the tensions

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:09.248 --> 01:18:10.736
of an individual nature?

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:10.740 --> 01:18:13.652
Or was it a tension of where

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:13.652 --> 01:18:15.510
the institution was going?

NOTE Confidence: 0.876779565454546

01:18:15.510 --> 01:18:17.860
The. Obviously.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8825992025

01:18:20.140 --> 01:18:23.428
If I'm a virologist.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8825992025

01:18:23.430 --> 01:18:24.780
I believe that virology in

NOTE Confidence: 0.8825992025

01:18:24.780 --> 01:18:26.444
and of itself has something to

NOTE Confidence: 0.8825992025

01:18:26.444 --> 01:18:28.028
contribute and also have some ego,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8825992025

01:18:28.030 --> 01:18:29.338
some biological ego.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:31.750 --> 01:18:33.941
Invested in it, and we felt that

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:33.941 --> 01:18:36.518
we ought to be able to convince

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:36.518 --> 01:18:38.473
Doctor Clark that that virology

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:38.473 --> 01:18:40.720
had an ultimate role to play.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:44.353
But if you go back and analyze

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:44.353 --> 01:18:47.320
the experience of those times.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8485892648

01:18:47.320 --> 01:18:50.788
You can never really convincingly argue.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855530830909091

01:18:53.530 --> 01:18:57.490
That. That any of us had a better view of

NOTE Confidence: 0.855530830909091

01:18:57.590 --> 01:19:00.670
the institution's destiny than Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855530830909091

01:19:00.670 --> 01:19:03.118
What we felt was that we couldn't persuade

NOTE Confidence: 0.855530830909091

01:19:03.118 --> 01:19:05.645
him that our role in about to be larger.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855530830909091

01:19:05.650 --> 01:19:09.367
So the way the way you ask the question.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:11.950 --> 01:19:15.946
It was essentially, invariably a personal.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:15.950 --> 01:19:17.990
A personal view. In other words,

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:17.990 --> 01:19:19.844
I think we should get there

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:19.844 --> 01:19:22.154
by this route and you think we

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:22.154 --> 01:19:24.164
should get there by that route.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:24.170 --> 01:19:29.538
The the worst criticism that I ever heard.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:29.540 --> 01:19:32.740
Made toward Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.787149165

01:19:32.740 --> 01:19:34.198
Was that he followed the money.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:36.410 --> 01:19:38.818
That if there was, if there was more

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:38.818 --> 01:19:41.100
money in chemical carcinogenesis.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:41.100 --> 01:19:42.628
The department became molecular

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:42.628 --> 01:19:43.774
carcinogenesis when there

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:43.774 --> 01:19:45.620
was more money in virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:45.620 --> 01:19:47.764
It was called virology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:47.764 --> 01:19:51.254
Well, is there a basis for that criticism?

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:51.260 --> 01:19:53.014
Ohh, superficially.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:53.014 --> 01:19:57.399
Perhaps because Doctor Clark knew.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:19:57.400 --> 01:20:00.396
That the institution could not support all

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:00.396 --> 01:20:03.397
the projects that it needed to carry out.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:03.400 --> 01:20:05.278
And that the projects that were

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:05.278 --> 01:20:07.597
important had to get their own financial

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:07.597 --> 01:20:09.726
support to at least some extent.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:09.726 --> 01:20:11.691
And that they could not

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:11.691 --> 01:20:12.870
get financial support.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:12.870 --> 01:20:14.478
Then you had to ask the question whether

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:14.478 --> 01:20:16.447
or not they were worth the commitment

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:16.447 --> 01:20:17.663
of other institutional resources.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:17.670 --> 01:20:20.397
So to that extent he followed the doctor that

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:20.397 --> 01:20:22.989
the dollar as the as the criticism went,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:22.990 --> 01:20:24.370
but in fact it wasn't really.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:24.370 --> 01:20:27.826
So what he did was create the atmosphere so

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:27.826 --> 01:20:31.326
that the dollars would follow the projects.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:31.330 --> 01:20:34.322
But he watched very carefully what the what

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:34.322 --> 01:20:37.147
the national and international trends were.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:37.150 --> 01:20:38.494
Not because he wanted to make

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:38.494 --> 01:20:39.660
sure that he followed them,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:39.660 --> 01:20:41.425
but because he always wanted

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:41.425 --> 01:20:43.190
to stay out of them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:43.190 --> 01:20:46.062
And that was, that was his goal, he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:46.062 --> 01:20:47.667
You know, I don't want.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:47.670 --> 01:20:49.938
I don't want to confirm Doctor so

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:49.938 --> 01:20:52.089
and so's work at some cannery.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:52.090 --> 01:20:53.914
I want doctor so and so to be

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:53.914 --> 01:20:55.610
out there confirming our work.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:55.610 --> 01:20:58.326
And that that was the deal that

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:58.326 --> 01:20:59.490
you took well?

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:20:59.490 --> 01:21:02.714
This this led over a period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:02.720 --> 01:21:05.204
To a major restructuring of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:05.204 --> 01:21:06.860
basic sciences new departments,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:06.860 --> 01:21:12.131
virology ultimately was subsumed by a a

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:12.131 --> 01:21:16.160
larger department called Tumor Biology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:16.160 --> 01:21:19.040
Which integrated aspects of cell biology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:19.040 --> 01:21:21.341
aspects of immunology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:21.341 --> 01:21:25.943
but as as fields became significant

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:25.943 --> 01:21:29.519
intellectual zones in their own right.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:29.520 --> 01:21:32.172
Doctor Clark was always good about

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:32.172 --> 01:21:33.056
creating departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:33.060 --> 01:21:34.708
And you know, when it was all over,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:34.710 --> 01:21:39.190
there were there were twenty or so strong.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:39.190 --> 01:21:41.510
Basic science programs and Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:41.510 --> 01:21:43.830
Clark always had the capacity.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:43.830 --> 01:21:45.650
To recruit the best people from anywhere

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:45.650 --> 01:21:47.467
in the country that he wanted to do,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:47.470 --> 01:21:48.730
and if not in the country,

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:48.730 --> 01:21:52.226
he went outside the country and brought in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:52.230 --> 01:21:54.350
Brought in outstanding people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899700180833333

01:21:54.350 --> 01:21:54.880
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:21:58.710 --> 01:22:00.838
He also had a tendency to allow the

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:00.838 --> 01:22:02.815
bringing in of young people for training

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:02.815 --> 01:22:07.100
and then to keep the best ones. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:07.100 --> 01:22:09.200
There was some criticism of some areas,

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:09.200 --> 01:22:12.848
in some areas that that this was inbreeding.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:12.850 --> 01:22:17.035
But Doctor Clark's view was that if you train

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:17.035 --> 01:22:20.536
people to do what MD Anderson does best.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:20.540 --> 01:22:21.680
If there's a place for them,

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:23.590
let them do it here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:23.590 --> 01:22:25.431
You know, let let them give back

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:25.431 --> 01:22:27.009
the training that they received.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:27.010 --> 01:22:27.949
Although he also,

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:27.949 --> 01:22:30.140
he also felt that the MD Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:30.201 --> 01:22:31.976
philosophy needed to be distributed

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:31.976 --> 01:22:34.190
in the country and the world.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:34.190 --> 01:22:37.502
And we had enormous training agreements

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:37.502 --> 01:22:40.527
with institutions in Japan and in

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:40.527 --> 01:22:43.025
France and in a variety of other places.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:43.030 --> 01:22:44.724
And it's a matter of fact there

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:44.724 --> 01:22:46.869
are very few leaders in the major

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:46.869 --> 01:22:48.574
institutions in those countries that

NOTE Confidence: 0.875649941363637

01:22:48.574 --> 01:22:50.840
have not had some training affiliation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:22:53.610 --> 01:22:55.026
Within the Anderson, as an aside,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:22:55.030 --> 01:22:59.188
just just for our personal acquaintance,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:22:59.190 --> 01:23:01.235
that's how I happened to go to Catania's

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:01.235 --> 01:23:02.950
because we trained people who are now

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:02.950 --> 01:23:04.328
in leadership positions over there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:04.330 --> 01:23:07.276
For example, we trained their whole

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:07.276 --> 01:23:09.240
bone marrow transplant program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:09.240 --> 01:23:11.053
Over there and several others have been

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:11.053 --> 01:23:13.381
over to to see how they're doing and to

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:13.381 --> 01:23:15.530
see what other kind of training that we

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:15.530 --> 01:23:17.553
could contribute and that sort of thing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:17.553 --> 01:23:19.418
But that's where we were.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:19.420 --> 01:23:25.318
And the I stayed on as acting chairman

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:25.318 --> 01:23:28.148
of the newly created department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:28.150 --> 01:23:32.078
Of a molecular carcinogenesis.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:32.080 --> 01:23:33.852
For a few years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:33.852 --> 01:23:37.118
and ultimately when it began to look

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:37.118 --> 01:23:41.510
as though our faculty could. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:41.510 --> 01:23:44.108
Could hold their own in science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:44.110 --> 01:23:46.870
The I was made permanent chairman,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:46.870 --> 01:23:49.126
but Doctor Clark told me when

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:49.126 --> 01:23:50.630
he and I discussed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:50.630 --> 01:23:53.906
That removing the acting from my title,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:53.910 --> 01:23:56.614
the that we were going to recreate a

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:56.614 --> 01:23:59.104
new department and that probably the

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:23:59.104 --> 01:24:01.726
Department of Molecular carcinogenesis as a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:01.730 --> 01:24:05.606
As a separate entity would move.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:05.610 --> 01:24:09.278
In its entirety to the science park.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:09.280 --> 01:24:11.449
And the remainder.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:11.450 --> 01:24:14.481
The part that remained in Houston would

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:14.481 --> 01:24:17.435
become an integral part of a larger

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:17.435 --> 01:24:19.805
basic science department and I fully

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:19.886 --> 01:24:22.346
supported that and told him that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:22.350 --> 01:24:25.010
although I enjoyed being chairman.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:25.010 --> 01:24:27.397
That that my ego did not require

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:27.397 --> 01:24:29.589
it and when the time came.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:29.590 --> 01:24:31.360
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:31.360 --> 01:24:35.284
If he needed me to step aside to recruit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:35.290 --> 01:24:37.474
Somebody who was really strong in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:37.474 --> 01:24:39.601
field that that I would step aside

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:39.601 --> 01:24:41.616
and that I would help recruit and

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:41.616 --> 01:24:43.656
that I would try not to make waves.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:43.660 --> 01:24:44.022
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:44.022 --> 01:24:46.556
The one thing that I wanted from

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:46.556 --> 01:24:49.018
him in terms of commitment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:49.020 --> 01:24:51.916
Was that we didn't bring in a cannibal

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:51.916 --> 01:24:54.756
who would come in and fire everybody.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:54.760 --> 01:24:55.996
And as I said, you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:57.855
I have, I can defend my people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:24:57.860 --> 01:25:01.528
Doctor Clark was very assuring about that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:25:01.530 --> 01:25:03.310
Well.

NOTE Confidence: 0.656213748333333

01:25:03.310 --> 01:25:04.398
Then something else happened.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9146547

01:25:06.510 --> 01:25:09.432
At the time. I hadn't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9146547

01:25:09.432 --> 01:25:11.658
I had no clue that that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9146547

01:25:11.660 --> 01:25:13.516
That I would have a role in it

NOTE Confidence: 0.9146547

01:25:13.516 --> 01:25:15.720
or it would or would ultimately.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9146547

01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:17.260
Influence my own career.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899188994545454

01:25:19.960 --> 01:25:22.613
But it turned out to be extraordinarily

NOTE Confidence: 0.899188994545454

01:25:22.613 --> 01:25:24.300
mistaken on both counts.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899188994545454

01:25:24.300 --> 01:25:26.590
The. And that is that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.899188994545454

01:25:26.590 --> 01:25:28.286
It came time for Doctor Clark to retire.

NOTE Confidence: 0.874385646470588

01:25:30.410 --> 01:25:32.144
One of the things that Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.874385646470588

01:25:32.144 --> 01:25:34.450
Clark did not do in in his

NOTE Confidence: 0.874385646470588

01:25:34.450 --> 01:25:35.890
leadership of the institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.874385646470588

01:25:35.890 --> 01:25:38.206
Is is really make a strong

NOTE Confidence: 0.874385646470588

01:25:38.206 --> 01:25:40.610
preparation for his own successor?

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:42.880 --> 01:25:45.204
Now from the various people that you

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:45.204 --> 01:25:48.425
speak to in this process, you will get.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:48.425 --> 01:25:51.330
You will get different opinions about this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:51.330 --> 01:25:53.842
My personal opinion is is that Doctor Clark

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:53.842 --> 01:25:56.428
felt that what he was doing was appalling.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:56.430 --> 01:25:59.238
And that he would be able to continue

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:25:59.238 --> 01:26:02.158
to do it until. Until some, really.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:02.158 --> 01:26:05.420
Significant advances were made and of course,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:05.420 --> 01:26:07.569
if you look back on his career.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:07.570 --> 01:26:08.386
Tremendous advances.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:08.386 --> 01:26:10.504
We're going, you know, during,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:10.504 --> 01:26:13.408
during, during the period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:13.410 --> 01:26:16.838
Uh. But I was at Indiana Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83886595

01:26:16.840 --> 01:26:19.590
the overall expectation of cure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890417861764706

01:26:22.050 --> 01:26:24.206
For most forms of cancer went from

NOTE Confidence: 0.890417861764706

01:26:24.206 --> 01:26:26.948
like one in five or six to one in two.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:29.890 --> 01:26:31.868
You can't ask for better, but.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:31.868 --> 01:26:33.242
Regardless, excuse me,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:33.242 --> 01:26:35.532
all those survival rates are

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:35.532 --> 01:26:38.060
cures and we use the word cure I.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:38.060 --> 01:26:40.616
Well, long cure and long term

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:40.616 --> 01:26:43.655
survival rate I tend to use

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:43.655 --> 01:26:46.310
interchangeably but but one of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:46.310 --> 01:26:49.329
one of the things that that has.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:49.330 --> 01:26:52.711
That has marked the advances that we've

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:52.711 --> 01:26:55.650
made on cancer is is that there are

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:55.650 --> 01:26:57.480
certainly many more people out there

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:57.537 --> 01:26:59.567
who have been cured of their cancer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:26:59.570 --> 01:27:01.238
but there's an even larger number

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:01.238 --> 01:27:03.429
of people who are not cured of their

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:03.429 --> 01:27:05.349
cancer and who are not dying of it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:05.350 --> 01:27:06.556
They are living.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:06.556 --> 01:27:09.370
They are living with their cancer at

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:09.447 --> 01:27:12.327
some level and that and you know that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:12.330 --> 01:27:15.168
If you place those two groups,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:15.170 --> 01:27:17.270
that is those that are cured and

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:17.270 --> 01:27:18.960
their cancer will never recur.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:18.960 --> 01:27:22.440
And those who are living with their cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:22.440 --> 01:27:23.328
Then you've got,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:23.328 --> 01:27:25.400
then you've got a number for what

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:25.463 --> 01:27:27.358
you can call long-term survival.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:27.360 --> 01:27:29.118
So so tremendous things were done,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87512526

01:27:29.120 --> 01:27:32.056
but but people age it came time for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:34.980 --> 01:27:37.505
For people. To consider a

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:37.505 --> 01:27:39.525
successor for Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:39.530 --> 01:27:41.498
At the time that that happened,

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:41.500 --> 01:27:44.340
I was a fairly visible

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:44.340 --> 01:27:46.044
administrative faculty Member,

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:46.050 --> 01:27:46.938
Department chairman.

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:46.938 --> 01:27:49.602
I had chaired the two major

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:49.602 --> 01:27:52.037
committees and was the 1st and

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:52.037 --> 01:27:53.877
perhaps the only non physician.

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:55.908
To ever to ever chair our

NOTE Confidence: 0.779265536666667

01:27:55.908 --> 01:27:56.922
Human subject committee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.911177524285714

01:27:59.360 --> 01:28:04.204
Because I was so deeply immersed in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.911177524285714

01:28:04.210 --> 01:28:06.721
In the enabling of both clinical as well as

NOTE Confidence: 0.911177524285714

01:28:06.721 --> 01:28:09.350
basic science research at that time. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:11.380 --> 01:28:14.188
And it was decided.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:14.190 --> 01:28:17.067
That a search committee would be formed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:17.070 --> 01:28:19.940
To find Doctor Clark's successor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:19.940 --> 01:28:22.642
And because of my capacity as chairman

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:22.642 --> 01:28:25.519
of the Research Committee at that time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:25.520 --> 01:28:29.244
I was asked to. Serve.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:29.244 --> 01:28:32.632
As one of the members of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:32.632 --> 01:28:34.998
search committee who asked you?

NOTE Confidence: 0.88144457

01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:37.808
I guess the initial request came.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:44.120 --> 01:28:45.677
From doctor lamaitre.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:45.677 --> 01:28:49.310
Who was Chancellor of the UC system

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:49.404 --> 01:28:52.410
at that time and who recommended?

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:52.410 --> 01:28:54.528
Made to him, I'm not sure,

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:54.530 --> 01:28:55.770
but it was very likely.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:55.770 --> 01:28:57.051
Doctor Jose Trujillo.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:57.051 --> 01:28:59.613
Who was a friend and a

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:28:59.613 --> 01:29:01.628
colleague and a collaborator,

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:01.630 --> 01:29:02.940
with whom I served on

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:02.940 --> 01:29:03.988
several of these committees.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:03.990 --> 01:29:06.415
He was chairman of laboratory

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:06.415 --> 01:29:08.355
medicine at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:08.360 --> 01:29:11.110
And we formed this committee,

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:11.110 --> 01:29:13.500
the committee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:13.500 --> 01:29:15.780
Consisted of of of three

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:15.780 --> 01:29:18.820
members of the Board of Regents

NOTE Confidence: 0.79314399

01:29:18.820 --> 01:29:22.130
including Governor Allen shirt.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:24.470 --> 01:29:25.370
And at the same time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:25.370 --> 01:29:26.396
we were also looking for a

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:26.396 --> 01:29:27.340
President of Health Science Center.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:27.340 --> 01:29:28.950
So there were two of these big

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:28.950 --> 01:29:30.009
search committees involved.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:30.009 --> 01:29:33.230
And so we began to get a structure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:33.230 --> 01:29:36.526
We had had members of our clinical group,

NOTE Confidence: 0.90479904

01:29:36.530 --> 01:29:38.834
a member of the Board of Visitors Regents.

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:41.720 --> 01:29:44.128
At least three presidents of other UT

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:44.128 --> 01:29:45.844
medical institutions in the country

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:45.844 --> 01:29:47.704
and and a smattering of faculty.

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:47.710 --> 01:29:49.686
There were about seven

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:49.686 --> 01:29:52.156
of us and two trainees.

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:52.160 --> 01:29:53.632
A basic science postdoc

NOTE Confidence: 0.814200962222222

01:29:53.632 --> 01:29:55.104
and a radiotherapy fellow.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802705581666667

01:29:57.650 --> 01:30:00.266
At that time. What an interesting,

NOTE Confidence: 0.802705581666667

01:30:00.270 --> 01:30:03.066
what an interesting group of people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802705581666667

01:30:03.070 --> 01:30:09.650
Well, we lived along. We we did a a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.802705581666667

01:30:09.650 --> 01:30:11.598
A fairly exhaustive search.

NOTE Confidence: 0.37587112

01:30:14.180 --> 01:30:17.905
Uh. Doctor Linder called

NOTE Confidence: 0.37587112

01:30:17.905 --> 01:30:19.600
the committee together.

NOTE Confidence: 0.37587112

01:30:19.600 --> 01:30:20.839
Several times. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.37587112

01:30:20.839 --> 01:30:22.904
We looked at some people

NOTE Confidence: 0.37587112

01:30:22.904 --> 01:30:24.940
who talked to some people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:27.150 --> 01:30:31.406
And one afternoon I had a telephone call.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:31.410 --> 01:30:35.558
From doctor Trujillo. And he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:35.560 --> 01:30:39.000
Jim, can I see you after hours tonight?

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:41.135
And I said sure, but I'm free.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:41.140 --> 01:30:43.510
Right now. Well, 11.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:43.510 --> 01:30:45.995
Why don't I come over right now?

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:48.664
He said. No, it has to be after hours.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:48.670 --> 01:30:51.714
OK. And I said you want me to

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:51.714 --> 01:30:53.732
come to your office and he said

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:53.732 --> 01:30:55.930
can I meet you in the library?

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:55.930 --> 01:30:58.408
I'm thinking what is happening here?

NOTE Confidence: 0.86484832

01:30:58.410 --> 01:31:00.700
And and and we met.

NOTE Confidence: 0.818819995714286

01:31:02.710 --> 01:31:04.915
About 7:30 that night in

NOTE Confidence: 0.818819995714286

01:31:04.915 --> 01:31:06.799
the library. And he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85144702

01:31:08.970 --> 01:31:12.195
I need somebody brave and

NOTE Confidence: 0.85144702

01:31:12.195 --> 01:31:13.779
foolhardy. And I said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8409548

01:31:16.660 --> 01:31:21.121
OK. What do I have to do to

NOTE Confidence: 0.8409548

01:31:21.121 --> 01:31:23.023
get this badge? I think sad.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8409548

01:31:23.023 --> 01:31:24.850
We want to ask Michaela Mayer to

NOTE Confidence: 0.8409548

01:31:24.910 --> 01:31:26.998
resign as chairman of the search

NOTE Confidence: 0.8409548

01:31:26.998 --> 01:31:28.800
committee to replace Doctor Clark.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858501674

01:31:31.110 --> 01:31:32.460
And I can remember thinking.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:35.930 --> 01:31:39.110
This can't be happening to me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:39.110 --> 01:31:41.526
And I thought this man was my friend.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:41.530 --> 01:31:44.098
And I said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:44.100 --> 01:31:46.820
OK, why are we going to do this?

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:46.820 --> 01:31:48.548
I thought. He's wonderful.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:48.548 --> 01:31:50.276
He said he's wonderful,

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:50.280 --> 01:31:51.806
but we don't need him as chairman

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:51.806 --> 01:31:52.980
of the search committee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:52.980 --> 01:31:54.380
We need him as President

NOTE Confidence: 0.839653011666667

01:31:54.380 --> 01:31:55.500
when Doctor Clark retires.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86906236

01:32:06.170 --> 01:32:06.800
54.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:09.130 --> 01:32:12.930
Well, I realized that that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:12.930 --> 01:32:15.384
Jose Trujillo was very serious about

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:15.384 --> 01:32:18.394
this and that he had consulted with

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:18.394 --> 01:32:21.418
all of the other MD Anderson members.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:21.420 --> 01:32:23.898
Whether or not he had consulted.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:23.900 --> 01:32:26.644
With some of the other outside Members,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:26.650 --> 01:32:29.482
I'm not sure except I knew that he

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:29.482 --> 01:32:31.849
had spoken to Governor Shivers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:31.850 --> 01:32:36.500
And governor Shivers endorsed. This plan.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:36.500 --> 01:32:38.615
So the following Thursday after

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:38.615 --> 01:32:41.220
this conversation on a Monday night.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:44.724
Uh. Jose had organized.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:44.724 --> 01:32:47.380
A meeting of the, I think,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:47.380 --> 01:32:49.510
7 MD Anderson members of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:49.598 --> 01:32:52.159
committee and said, you know this,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:52.159 --> 01:32:54.630
this is what we want to do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:54.630 --> 01:32:56.398
We really believe that after all the people

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:56.398 --> 01:32:57.989
that we've looked at and we've looked,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:32:57.990 --> 01:33:01.052
we looked at some extraordinary people, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868217212

01:33:01.052 --> 01:33:03.158
We believe that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.732223052857143

01:33:05.500 --> 01:33:07.166
That lamenter needs to be a candidate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8798363825

01:33:10.090 --> 01:33:11.410
So this was agreed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.850028583333333

01:33:14.410 --> 01:33:17.368
And before the meeting was over.

NOTE Confidence: 0.850028583333333

01:33:17.370 --> 01:33:20.354
Jose said to me. Doctor Bowen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.850028583333333

01:33:20.354 --> 01:33:21.989
would you remain behind us

NOTE Confidence: 0.850028583333333

01:33:21.989 --> 01:33:23.479
after the meeting is over?

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:26.400 --> 01:33:29.586
I need some assistance with something.

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:29.590 --> 01:33:33.454
And so everyone left and I waited behind.

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:33.460 --> 01:33:36.479
And he came and he said, do you think

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:36.479 --> 01:33:38.940
you could get free one day next week?

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:38.940 --> 01:33:40.316
And I said probably,

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:40.316 --> 01:33:42.710
what do you want me to do?

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:42.710 --> 01:33:44.222
And he said, I want you to go

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:44.222 --> 01:33:45.952
with me to Austin and meet with

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:45.952 --> 01:33:47.595
Doctor Lemaster and ask him to

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:47.595 --> 01:33:49.311
resign as chairman of the search

NOTE Confidence: 0.914019155

01:33:49.311 --> 01:33:50.730
committee and become a candidate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:33:53.910 --> 01:33:58.480
And we did. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:33:58.480 --> 01:34:00.336
I don't know how Doctor Trillo was feeling.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:00.340 --> 01:34:04.316
I was experiencing some fear and trepidation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:04.320 --> 01:34:07.578
About this and I thought well.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:07.580 --> 01:34:09.660
I believe that this is the right thing to do,

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:09.660 --> 01:34:11.612
and if we and if we cause ourselves

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:11.612 --> 01:34:13.084
difficulty for it, we will.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:13.084 --> 01:34:15.044
We'll just have to backtrack

NOTE Confidence: 0.893412266666667

01:34:15.044 --> 01:34:16.720
and rethink it well.

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:20.790 --> 01:34:23.838
That day in Austin in Darcell

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:23.838 --> 01:34:26.869
majors office was was my first.

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:26.870 --> 01:34:29.408
Real dealing with.

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:29.410 --> 01:34:34.140
With Charles Meyer. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:34.140 --> 01:34:38.420
And to our amazement, he.

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:38.420 --> 01:34:39.758
He had some fun with us

NOTE Confidence: 0.696453406666667

01:34:39.758 --> 01:34:41.110
because he knew that we were.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:43.960 --> 01:34:47.578
We felt at some risk and we felt discomfited.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:47.580 --> 01:34:49.335
It's perfectly clear in retrospect

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:49.335 --> 01:34:51.679
that that he was prepared for this,

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:51.680 --> 01:34:53.640
that that Alan Shivers had spoken to him

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:53.640 --> 01:34:55.938
and said it and said it was going to happen.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:55.940 --> 01:34:59.342
And he must have already said I will agree.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:34:59.350 --> 01:35:03.428
To be to be a candidate. But he said,

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:03.428 --> 01:35:05.810
the crucial thing is not how the presidents

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:05.810 --> 01:35:07.480
of the other edgy institutions feel,

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:07.480 --> 01:35:10.096
but how the MD Anderson faculty people feel.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:10.100 --> 01:35:12.125
If they're enthusiastic about this, then

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:12.125 --> 01:35:14.885
I'll consider it and we'll go from there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:14.890 --> 01:35:18.550
Well. As the old Cliche says,

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:18.550 --> 01:35:22.870
the rest is history. He agreed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:22.870 --> 01:35:24.826
He resigned to become a candidate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:24.830 --> 01:35:27.084
We interviewed him like any other candidate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.821638435555556

01:35:27.090 --> 01:35:28.638
We considered his credentials.

NOTE Confidence: 0.76666599

01:35:30.760 --> 01:35:32.732
Against the credentials of

NOTE Confidence: 0.76666599

01:35:32.732 --> 01:35:35.197
some other very strong people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.76666599

01:35:35.200 --> 01:35:38.238
In the nation and in every respect.

NOTE Confidence: 0.76666599

01:35:38.240 --> 01:35:42.536
The. He looked, he looked like.

NOTE Confidence: 0.76666599

01:35:42.540 --> 01:35:45.520
Our man. The governor shivers

NOTE Confidence: 0.76666599

01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:48.170
in the meantime. Had agreed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:35:50.660 --> 01:35:53.796
To become chairman of the search committee.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:35:53.800 --> 01:35:57.944
Because we felt like we needed help.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:35:57.950 --> 01:36:00.686
In dealing with the presence of the other

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:00.686 --> 01:36:02.567
institutions because, rightly or wrongly,

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:02.567 --> 01:36:04.961
the MD Anderson contingent of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:04.961 --> 01:36:07.124
search committee felt this though that

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:07.124 --> 01:36:10.020
that not all of the other UT medical.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:10.020 --> 01:36:12.554
Institutions were interested in our in our

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:12.554 --> 01:36:17.310
having a really strong leader, one who knew.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:17.310 --> 01:36:19.488
Where everything was in the UT system and how

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:19.488 --> 01:36:21.749
to deal with the legislature and so forth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:21.750 --> 01:36:22.899
And you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:22.899 --> 01:36:25.580
we knew that Limato was a master.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:25.580 --> 01:36:28.808
But but in fact, the search

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:28.808 --> 01:36:31.320
committee was virtually unanimous in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:31.320 --> 01:36:36.390
In its deliberations after that and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:36.390 --> 01:36:39.590
And Doctor Clamator came.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784450024285714

01:36:39.590 --> 01:36:42.026
And during the period of time that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:36:44.280 --> 01:36:47.545
Well. Between which we were

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:36:47.545 --> 01:36:50.614
finalizing the search. And arranging.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:36:50.614 --> 01:36:53.926
For the transition from Doctor Clark's

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:36:53.926 --> 01:36:57.965
presidency to doctor leaders presidency, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:36:57.965 --> 01:37:00.080
The Documentor visited.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:00.080 --> 01:37:03.438
The Anderson many times, of course.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:03.438 --> 01:37:05.052
He knew it inside and out

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:05.052 --> 01:37:06.790
from his role as chancellor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:06.790 --> 01:37:10.720
And and spoke with many of us on the phone.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:10.720 --> 01:37:12.680
And we realized that that in many

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:12.680 --> 01:37:14.360
of our telephone conversations,

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:14.360 --> 01:37:17.228
he were he was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:17.230 --> 01:37:19.310
And in the in the guys have kind

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:19.310 --> 01:37:20.788
of casual conversation feeling us

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:20.788 --> 01:37:23.283
out as to as to where we thought

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:23.283 --> 01:37:25.365
MD Anderson should go and what

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:25.365 --> 01:37:27.414
route that should take and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:27.414 --> 01:37:30.928
And and so forth and to see

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:30.928 --> 01:37:34.120
whether or not we would accept.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:34.120 --> 01:37:37.230
A radical departure from Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:37.230 --> 01:37:39.096
Clark Solomon administration,

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:39.100 --> 01:37:42.050
namely from a highly centralized.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:42.050 --> 01:37:45.940
Uh. Administrative structure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:45.940 --> 01:37:51.416
To a highly delegated and highly distributed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89040373875

01:37:51.416 --> 01:37:53.428
Form of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.80277127

01:37:56.050 --> 01:37:57.580
Of administrative structure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.80277127

01:37:57.580 --> 01:37:59.620
Not unlock the administrative

NOTE Confidence: 0.80277127

01:37:59.620 --> 01:38:02.109
structure of the whole system.

NOTE Confidence: 0.80277127

01:38:02.110 --> 01:38:04.810
Or where there's a central figure at the top,

NOTE Confidence: 0.80277127

01:38:04.810 --> 01:38:07.770
but there are there are people who have

NOTE Confidence: 0.80277127

01:38:07.770 --> 01:38:09.820
essentially total responsibility for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:12.970 --> 01:38:14.872
For the day-to-day operations in their

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:14.872 --> 01:38:17.257
area and rather than having to have

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:17.257 --> 01:38:19.027
every department head marching into

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:19.027 --> 01:38:20.708
the President's office every day,

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:20.710 --> 01:38:22.656
that there would be people that they

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:22.656 --> 01:38:25.340
could talk to about small problems and if

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:25.340 --> 01:38:27.460
those problems couldn't get resolved then.

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:27.460 --> 01:38:29.760
Then the president would be

NOTE Confidence: 0.872080376086957

01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:31.530
accessible and available. Well.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:33.580 --> 01:38:36.180
We thought it was a good idea because

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:36.180 --> 01:38:38.030
Annie Anderson had grown so much.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:38.030 --> 01:38:40.046
That we felt that it was getting hard

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:40.046 --> 01:38:42.006
for any single individual to kind of

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:42.006 --> 01:38:44.470
keep up with what was going on all over.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:44.470 --> 01:38:46.178
We were. We were not only huge,

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:46.180 --> 01:38:49.620
but we were. We were.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:49.620 --> 01:38:52.005
Becoming more and more geographically

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:52.005 --> 01:38:54.390
dispersed around the Medical Center.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:54.390 --> 01:38:56.644
So yes, we thought we thought it

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:56.644 --> 01:38:59.569
was a good idea and we shared it

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:38:59.569 --> 01:39:02.050
with Doctor Laminator and he freely.

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:39:02.050 --> 01:39:04.485
Received and and discussed and

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:39:04.485 --> 01:39:06.478
analyzed with us, you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:39:06.478 --> 01:39:07.798
how we thought certain things

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:39:07.798 --> 01:39:09.529
could work and how we thought

NOTE Confidence: 0.839304674285714

01:39:09.529 --> 01:39:10.999
there would be natural divisions.

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:13.350 --> 01:39:18.404
Coming down the. Doctor Miner called me

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:18.404 --> 01:39:21.780
privately on a few occasions to ask.

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:21.780 --> 01:39:23.761
How I felt about the restructuring of

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:23.761 --> 01:39:25.803
my own department and I told him that

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:25.803 --> 01:39:27.658
I thought that there was wisdom in it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:27.660 --> 01:39:29.300
that it should be done.

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:29.300 --> 01:39:32.837
And that I was, I was going to be

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:32.837 --> 01:39:35.029
supportive and be prepared to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:35.030 --> 01:39:37.406
To let someone else take the helm in

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:37.406 --> 01:39:39.787
order to get us back into a really,

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:39.790 --> 01:39:42.360
really strong national funding posture.

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:42.360 --> 01:39:44.544
Again, because virology as such was

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:44.544 --> 01:39:47.093
losing a lot of its attractiveness

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:47.093 --> 01:39:49.137
to the funding agencies,

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:49.140 --> 01:39:52.549
because so much of our urology had

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:52.549 --> 01:39:55.260
become molecular biology by that point.

NOTE Confidence: 0.774798613333333

01:39:55.260 --> 01:39:57.820
And. He.

NOTE Confidence: 0.80169955

01:40:01.540 --> 01:40:04.060
Seen appreciative of that point of view

NOTE Confidence: 0.80169955

01:40:04.060 --> 01:40:09.350
and and we went from there well and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.80169955

01:40:09.350 --> 01:40:13.119
I guess about 1978. 79 he came.

NOTE Confidence: 0.03842324

01:40:15.220 --> 01:40:15.960
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.869015266666667

01:40:19.230 --> 01:40:20.340
And he began.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816189292

01:40:22.750 --> 01:40:26.090
A gentle but pretty definite.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816189292

01:40:26.090 --> 01:40:31.980
Restructuring at the time. And. One day.

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:34.580 --> 01:40:37.910
He called and asked if I could meet with him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:37.910 --> 01:40:40.709
The following afternoon.

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:40.710 --> 01:40:43.254
And he said, I'm also inviting

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:43.254 --> 01:40:45.689
doctor Fred Becker to come up.

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:45.690 --> 01:40:48.380
Doctor, Doctor Becker was the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:48.380 --> 01:40:51.062
Was the highly recruited Doctor Clark

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:51.062 --> 01:40:54.024
considered his recruitment of a real?

NOTE Confidence: 0.934490387

01:40:54.024 --> 01:40:58.720
Coup from NYU to head up pathology when?

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:00.810 --> 01:41:03.186
One of the kind of the old time

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:03.186 --> 01:41:05.278
head of pathology. Had retired.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:05.278 --> 01:41:07.910
The. That was a that was a kind

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:07.989 --> 01:41:10.005
of a transition for me too,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:10.010 --> 01:41:12.752
because in fact it was that

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:12.752 --> 01:41:14.470
that that head of pathology, Dr.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:14.470 --> 01:41:17.890
W Russell, that had become one of my friends,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:17.890 --> 01:41:19.120
and I didn't know it until

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:19.120 --> 01:41:20.439
three years after I got there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:20.440 --> 01:41:22.928
But he had actually forked up the money

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:22.930 --> 01:41:26.549
to allow Doctor Mccaskey to recruit me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:26.550 --> 01:41:29.070
And to do that I did some biological

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:29.070 --> 01:41:31.449
work on a on a grant that had

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:31.449 --> 01:41:33.430
to do with bovine cancer eye.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:33.430 --> 01:41:34.834
When watching that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:34.834 --> 01:41:37.174
it was bobbing cancer eye.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:37.180 --> 01:41:38.980
And that's how I got to know David Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:38.980 --> 01:41:40.714
whom we mentioned because he was

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:40.714 --> 01:41:42.360
the geneticist on the project.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:42.360 --> 01:41:43.904
Interesting piece of work,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:43.904 --> 01:41:44.676
very straightforward.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:46.235
Classical virology turned out to

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:46.235 --> 01:41:48.240
have nothing to do with tumors,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:48.240 --> 01:41:49.508
but it was interesting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:49.508 --> 01:41:51.243
But at any rate, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:51.243 --> 01:41:54.484
So I already had a close association

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:54.484 --> 01:41:57.558
with pathology for a variety of reasons.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:41:57.560 --> 01:42:00.640
And the next day Doctor Becker and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:00.640 --> 01:42:03.115
I turned up the documentary's

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:03.115 --> 01:42:05.970
office and doctor later laid out

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:05.970 --> 01:42:08.955
for us a new a new organization

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:08.955 --> 01:42:11.370
for research in the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:11.370 --> 01:42:14.226
as a part of a larger flow diagram

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:14.226 --> 01:42:16.236
of clinical divisions within

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:16.236 --> 01:42:18.668
which departments would exist.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:18.670 --> 01:42:19.918
And there would be a division,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:19.920 --> 01:42:21.052
basically a basic science,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:21.052 --> 01:42:23.615
and there would be a vice president and

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:23.615 --> 01:42:25.635
associate Vice President for research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:26.291
Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:26.291 --> 01:42:30.197
Designed to administer and to grow,

NOTE Confidence: 0.803907154545454

01:42:30.200 --> 01:42:32.520
and to and to redevelop.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:36.510 --> 01:42:39.666
To clean up some nonproductive areas,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:39.670 --> 01:42:41.598
to do some very,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:41.598 --> 01:42:44.490
very concentrated recruiting of new people,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:44.490 --> 01:42:47.390
and to essentially rebuild the

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:47.390 --> 01:42:49.710
whole basic science program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:49.710 --> 01:42:51.702
I've been to the Anderson and I can

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:51.702 --> 01:42:53.454
remember Fred Becker saying, wow,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:53.454 --> 01:42:55.944
that's a tall order, dark clamator.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:55.944 --> 01:42:58.540
Who do you have in mind to do that?

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:58.540 --> 01:42:59.692
And he said well.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:42:59.692 --> 01:43:02.133
I have in mind two people that I

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:02.133 --> 01:43:04.380
called in my office this afternoon to

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:04.380 --> 01:43:06.985
see if I could persuade him to do it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:06.990 --> 01:43:08.766
So anyway, and there was, you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:08.766 --> 01:43:10.990
there was a lot of moaning and groaning

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:11.049 --> 01:43:13.114
and weeping and wailing and mashing of

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:13.114 --> 01:43:15.533
teeth and and all of it very insincere

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:15.533 --> 01:43:19.140
because we were thrilled to that to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:19.140 --> 01:43:24.765
To get this opportunity so as as the new.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:24.770 --> 01:43:26.306
Decade turned around.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:26.306 --> 01:43:28.354
Fred Becker and I,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:28.360 --> 01:43:30.346
he went in as the vice

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:30.346 --> 01:43:31.339
President for research,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:31.340 --> 01:43:33.748
and I went in as the Associate

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:33.748 --> 01:43:35.490
Vice President for research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:35.490 --> 01:43:37.205
We begin to correlate and to organize

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:37.205 --> 01:43:39.070
all of the elements of research,

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:39.070 --> 01:43:41.470
both in basic science and clinical

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:41.470 --> 01:43:43.702
departments throughout the whole institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:43.702 --> 01:43:46.996
And we would sit in his office

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:46.996 --> 01:43:48.860
late in the afternoon.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:48.860 --> 01:43:50.806
And worry about the fact that we

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:50.806 --> 01:43:53.160
were going to have to make some

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:53.160 --> 01:43:54.975
really hard and unpopular decisions.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:54.980 --> 01:43:57.419
Some people were going to have to be retired.

NOTE Confidence: 0.817549525

01:43:57.420 --> 01:43:58.827
Some were going to have to go.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879141597692308

01:44:01.520 --> 01:44:03.592
And we were going to have to reorganize

NOTE Confidence: 0.879141597692308

01:44:03.592 --> 01:44:05.060
departments and do some recruiting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879141597692308

01:44:05.060 --> 01:44:08.686
What year was this? This was in?

NOTE Confidence: 0.879141597692308

01:44:08.690 --> 01:44:13.410
Late 79, early 80. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879141597692308

01:44:13.410 --> 01:44:16.130
And. And over the next.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830616406

01:44:18.150 --> 01:44:19.690
Several years that was done,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830616406

01:44:19.690 --> 01:44:21.458
but I was a part of it for

NOTE Confidence: 0.830616406

01:44:21.458 --> 01:44:23.240
that for that period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:25.670 --> 01:44:27.716
We did a lot of recruiting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:27.720 --> 01:44:29.900
That a lot of reallocation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:29.900 --> 01:44:32.196
Resources. It was a very hard time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:32.200 --> 01:44:34.300
but there's also a very exciting

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:34.300 --> 01:44:36.194
time because we were bringing

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:36.194 --> 01:44:38.289
in some fabulous new science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:38.290 --> 01:44:40.050
We were the envy of the nation in terms of

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:40.098 --> 01:44:41.778
the people that we were able to recruit,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:41.780 --> 01:44:43.424
people like Isaiah Fiddler.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:43.424 --> 01:44:45.890
And and Margaret Crypti and Garth

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:45.967 --> 01:44:48.057
Nicholson and people like that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:48.060 --> 01:44:50.472
The. All of them had already

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:50.472 --> 01:44:51.678
had established reputations,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:51.680 --> 01:44:53.320
and yet were young enough that they were

NOTE Confidence: 0.846795108333333

01:44:53.320 --> 01:44:55.200
still on the ascendancies of their careers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:44:57.560 --> 01:44:58.680
It was a wonderful time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:44:58.680 --> 01:45:01.200
although it was tough and we didn't have a

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:01.200 --> 01:45:03.973
lot of new resources we had to do it within.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:03.980 --> 01:45:06.674
Within that we had although Documenter

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:06.674 --> 01:45:09.522
worked tirelessly to get us to resources

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:09.522 --> 01:45:12.390
to do this both in the private sector.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:12.390 --> 01:45:14.490
And from the state legislature.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:14.490 --> 01:45:17.280
Was the state legislature receptive?

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:17.280 --> 01:45:20.070
Did you find them increasingly receptive

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:20.070 --> 01:45:23.060
or was it a constant they were and

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:23.060 --> 01:45:25.436
yet there there was some concern

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:25.436 --> 01:45:28.278
that MD Anderson not go to academic.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:28.280 --> 01:45:31.930
The. Darklighter had been in academic

NOTE Confidence: 0.90303731

01:45:31.930 --> 01:45:33.490
medicine for his entire career.

NOTE Confidence: 0.3305203

01:45:35.970 --> 01:45:36.730
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:38.760 --> 01:45:41.238
And there may have been some concern

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:41.238 --> 01:45:43.860
at the system administrative level.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:43.860 --> 01:45:46.176
That they didn't want our clamator

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:46.180 --> 01:45:47.596
to turn MD Anderson into the

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:47.596 --> 01:45:49.065
Super Medical School of the whole

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:49.065 --> 01:45:50.481
system because they were trying to

NOTE Confidence: 0.819512780833333

01:45:50.481 --> 01:45:52.190
build a medical school in Houston.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:45:54.240 --> 01:45:56.380
A tremendous amount of enthusiasm

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:45:56.380 --> 01:45:59.570
and effort at the system level had

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:45:59.570 --> 01:46:01.995
been put into retooling southwestern

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:05.248
into into one of the world's premier

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:05.248 --> 01:46:06.640
academic medical institutions,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:06.640 --> 01:46:08.020
and that of course succeeded.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:08.020 --> 01:46:10.750
I don't think anybody would argue.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:10.750 --> 01:46:12.269
With that didn't that, that didn't do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:12.270 --> 01:46:15.315
They were trying to build San Antonio.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:15.320 --> 01:46:16.712
At the same time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:16.712 --> 01:46:19.281
and the University of Texas was being

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:19.281 --> 01:46:21.711
asked to put a tremendous amount

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:21.711 --> 01:46:24.190
of its educational resources into.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:24.190 --> 01:46:26.390
Into its new health,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:26.390 --> 01:46:29.214
science and Cancer Center.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:29.214 --> 01:46:33.310
Activities, so it took a constant.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:33.310 --> 01:46:36.480
Educational effort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:38.136
Some people might call it lobbying.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853962438235294

01:46:38.140 --> 01:46:38.680
We didn't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:42.740 --> 01:46:44.628
But Gartel matter was drawn away a lot

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:44.628 --> 01:46:47.115
and I think that he had known from the

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:47.115 --> 01:46:49.090
beginning that that was going to happen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:49.090 --> 01:46:51.457
which was one of the reasons why he wanted

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:51.457 --> 01:46:53.708
to put the organizational structure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:53.710 --> 01:46:56.404
In place, he also dreamed of

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:56.404 --> 01:46:58.874
ultimately turning MD Anderson into

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:46:58.874 --> 01:47:01.250
the ultimate academic institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:01.250 --> 01:47:03.968
namely one that could grant degrees.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:03.970 --> 01:47:06.790
The. But at the same time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:06.790 --> 01:47:09.278
we had a very strong affiliation with the

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:09.278 --> 01:47:11.209
Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:11.210 --> 01:47:13.240
which was administratively within the

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:13.240 --> 01:47:15.735
Health Science Center because the Health

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:15.735 --> 01:47:17.765
Science centers were legislatively approved

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:17.765 --> 01:47:20.649
to grant degrees and the Anderson was not,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:20.650 --> 01:47:23.830
of course. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:23.830 --> 01:47:27.706
But our faculty granted degrees within the

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:27.706 --> 01:47:29.986
Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:29.990 --> 01:47:32.022
Well. This went on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:32.022 --> 01:47:34.054
This rebuilding program and

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:34.054 --> 01:47:36.687
research for a couple of years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:36.690 --> 01:47:43.100
And. Battle matter happened to be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:43.100 --> 01:47:45.890
On a plane to Austin and I was going

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:45.890 --> 01:47:48.489
along to a Board of Regents meeting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:48.490 --> 01:47:50.482
There were.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:50.482 --> 01:47:54.370
There were faculty designated attendees

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:54.370 --> 01:47:57.070
at all Board of Regents meeting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:57.070 --> 01:47:59.350
And I happened to be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:47:59.350 --> 01:48:01.040
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:48:01.040 --> 01:48:03.120
One of the two this evening people and

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:48:03.120 --> 01:48:05.259
I happened to be in the seat next to

NOTE Confidence: 0.830899885833333

01:48:05.259 --> 01:48:07.259
Doctor Mayer and this would have been in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.6123723

01:48:09.440 --> 01:48:15.048
Late. 1981 I think you might need.

NOTE Confidence: 0.6123723

01:48:15.050 --> 01:48:16.490
To carefully recheck those states,

NOTE Confidence: 0.6123723

01:48:16.490 --> 01:48:20.469
but I believe in late 1981. And he said,

NOTE Confidence: 0.6123723

01:48:20.469 --> 01:48:22.030
Jim, how are things going in research?

NOTE Confidence: 0.76407188

01:48:24.620 --> 01:48:27.814
And I said. We're working really hard,

NOTE Confidence: 0.76407188

01:48:27.814 --> 01:48:28.944
but I think they're going

NOTE Confidence: 0.76407188

01:48:28.944 --> 01:48:30.122
really well, he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.76407188

01:48:30.122 --> 01:48:31.546
Yeah, that's my impression.

NOTE Confidence: 0.76407188

01:48:31.550 --> 01:48:34.409
2. And he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.930886005

01:48:36.770 --> 01:48:38.408
I think it's time to do

NOTE Confidence: 0.930886005

01:48:38.408 --> 01:48:39.500
something similar in education.

NOTE Confidence: 0.915382728823529

01:48:41.560 --> 01:48:44.605
I would like to coordinate all the

NOTE Confidence: 0.915382728823529

01:48:44.605 --> 01:48:46.884
educational activities and all the

NOTE Confidence: 0.915382728823529

01:48:46.884 --> 01:48:49.124
educational resources into one unit.

NOTE Confidence: 0.915382728823529

01:48:49.130 --> 01:48:50.570
At the vice presidential level.

NOTE Confidence: 0.690449146666667

01:48:55.090 --> 01:48:56.368
And I said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8818502525

01:48:59.060 --> 01:49:04.130
I think that's tremendous. I said it's.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8818502525

01:49:04.130 --> 01:49:07.860
You may have some internal. Problems there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8818502525

01:49:07.860 --> 01:49:11.500
Because a lot of the education in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.8818502525

01:49:11.588 --> 01:49:14.678
institution has grown up as cottage

NOTE Confidence: 0.8818502525

01:49:14.678 --> 01:49:17.730
industry and and there may be some.

NOTE Confidence: 0.74770201

01:49:19.750 --> 01:49:21.748
Some territorial problems.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816601853636364

01:49:24.300 --> 01:49:26.445
And. He said. How would

NOTE Confidence: 0.816601853636364

01:49:26.445 --> 01:49:28.980
you like to take that on?

NOTE Confidence: 0.83590659

01:49:31.120 --> 01:49:31.930
And I said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.825466606

01:49:34.460 --> 01:49:37.500
I can't take that on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.825466606

01:49:37.500 --> 01:49:40.610
Because so much of our.

NOTE Confidence: 0.825466606

01:49:40.610 --> 01:49:42.274
Educational program is clinical.

NOTE Confidence: 0.825466606

01:49:42.274 --> 01:49:44.354
If we're going to have

NOTE Confidence: 0.825466606

01:49:44.354 --> 01:49:46.329
any clinical credibility.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:49:51.280 --> 01:49:52.576
You're going to have to have a physician

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:49:52.576 --> 01:49:54.966
in that role, like Doctor Copeland was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:49:54.966 --> 01:49:57.750
That's Mark Copeland was a tremendous

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:49:57.824 --> 01:50:00.769
educational officer for the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:00.770 --> 01:50:02.798
but he relegated the basic science

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:02.798 --> 01:50:06.388
part to Doctor Haas, who did it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:06.390 --> 01:50:08.532
Kind of as a part of his

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:08.532 --> 01:50:10.120
overall basic science activity.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:10.120 --> 01:50:10.864
Doctor Mayer said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:10.864 --> 01:50:12.600
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:12.600 --> 01:50:14.984
I want to talk about it again sometime,

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:14.990 --> 01:50:19.684
I said sure. But I. So don't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:19.684 --> 01:50:21.774
Don't misunderstand me, darling Mayor,

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:21.774 --> 01:50:23.796
I would absolutely love this job.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:23.800 --> 01:50:26.866
I would love to do this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:26.870 --> 01:50:27.980
I said I I just.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:27.980 --> 01:50:29.522
I can't think right now that

NOTE Confidence: 0.810675970909091

01:50:29.522 --> 01:50:31.678
a PhD can do this job for you.

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:34.730 --> 01:50:36.926
No more was said about it on that trip,

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:36.930 --> 01:50:41.900
and not for several weeks. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:41.900 --> 01:50:45.176
One day, Doctor Robert Morton called me

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:45.176 --> 01:50:49.968
and said I'm supposed to go and report on

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:49.968 --> 01:50:52.980
MD Anderson's residency training program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:52.980 --> 01:50:55.144
To the Residency Training

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:55.144 --> 01:50:57.308
Committee of the TMA.

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:57.310 --> 01:50:58.810
And I have another obligation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:50:58.810 --> 01:51:00.672
Do you think you could take my

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:51:00.672 --> 01:51:01.946
notes and put together something in

NOTE Confidence: 0.771374034444444

01:51:01.946 --> 01:51:03.260
your own and go and present that?

NOTE Confidence: 0.88195889

01:51:05.420 --> 01:51:06.248
And I said sure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.814890287142857

01:51:08.450 --> 01:51:10.691
So I went to the TMA and I presented

NOTE Confidence: 0.814890287142857

01:51:10.691 --> 01:51:12.599
the residency program as though I

NOTE Confidence: 0.814890287142857

01:51:12.599 --> 01:51:15.120
don't know what I was doing. Up there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:18.110 --> 01:51:20.648
But naive me, I did not see this as

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:20.648 --> 01:51:23.526
a as a setup, which it clearly was

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:23.526 --> 01:51:26.040
would cause about a month later.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:26.040 --> 01:51:31.320
Buffalo miner called me again. And sad.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:31.320 --> 01:51:33.301
I've had a couple of conversations with

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:33.301 --> 01:51:35.190
people who were at the TMA meeting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:35.190 --> 01:51:35.895
He said congratulations,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:35.895 --> 01:51:37.614
you did a pretty good job. I said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:37.614 --> 01:51:40.070
Well, you know, I read from the notes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:40.070 --> 01:51:40.838
Suffering, he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:40.838 --> 01:51:42.710
He said no, he didn't. He said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:42.710 --> 01:51:44.680
Do you still think a PhD kid?

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:44.680 --> 01:51:47.408
And with educational programs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:47.410 --> 01:51:49.760
Institutional.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846370557692308

01:51:49.760 --> 01:51:51.670
One moment where I said I, I have.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:51:54.230 --> 01:51:56.310
I hate to set myself up to fail.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:51:56.310 --> 01:51:58.060
Failure is a really bad

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:51:58.060 --> 01:52:01.099
thing for me and he said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:01.100 --> 01:52:03.900
Well, let's talk about it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:03.900 --> 01:52:05.258
Well, one of the things you learned

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:05.258 --> 01:52:06.600
about Doctor later is that when he

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:06.600 --> 01:52:07.680
decided something was going to be,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:07.680 --> 01:52:09.820
it was going to be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:09.820 --> 01:52:13.230
I mean, he wasn't like.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:13.230 --> 01:52:13.824
Doctor Clark,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:13.824 --> 01:52:16.555
who called you up and say I want to

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:16.555 --> 01:52:18.585
come up and discuss this with me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:18.590 --> 01:52:20.642
You're free to disagree,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:20.642 --> 01:52:22.694
but bring your contract.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:22.700 --> 01:52:24.310
The about Clark had a

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:24.310 --> 01:52:25.598
reputation for doing that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:26.440
I never saw it happen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:26.440 --> 01:52:28.576
but he had a reputation for doing that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:28.580 --> 01:52:31.655
Barometer kept giving you opportunities

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:31.655 --> 01:52:34.115
to reconsider your position.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8748652125

01:52:34.120 --> 01:52:35.290
And so finally.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843353718333333

01:52:37.440 --> 01:52:39.204
After some conversations.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843353718333333

01:52:39.204 --> 01:52:41.598
I said OK, I'll tell you what.

NOTE Confidence: 0.94434282

01:52:44.010 --> 01:52:45.638
Let me try this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:52:47.880 --> 01:52:50.130
In a year I will come and tell you

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:52:50.130 --> 01:52:52.637
if I think I can do it. In two years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:52:52.637 --> 01:52:54.946
I will come and you tell me whether

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:52:54.946 --> 01:52:57.186
or not you think I can do it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:52:57.190 --> 01:52:59.682
and in five years you can replace

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:52:59.682 --> 01:53:02.082
me with someone else, because this

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:02.082 --> 01:53:05.204
job is very much like a deanship.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:05.210 --> 01:53:07.770
And I have always believed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:07.770 --> 01:53:09.242
That the productive, creative,

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:09.242 --> 01:53:12.090
reasonable life of the Dean is 5 years

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:12.090 --> 01:53:13.824
and after that they should either

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:13.824 --> 01:53:16.160
be put in the freezer or something.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89473119375

01:53:16.160 --> 01:53:19.610
And we laughed about that I can remember so.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83825191117647

01:53:21.650 --> 01:53:23.024
So we did it. We consolidated

NOTE Confidence: 0.83825191117647

01:53:23.024 --> 01:53:25.088
and I spent a whole year talking

NOTE Confidence: 0.83825191117647

01:53:25.088 --> 01:53:26.548
to every department chairman,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83825191117647

01:53:26.550 --> 01:53:28.218
every educational coordinator.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:30.550 --> 01:53:32.170
I I went to the TMA.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:32.170 --> 01:53:34.690
I went to the Deans of the other schools.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:34.690 --> 01:53:36.148
The I went to other institutions

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:36.148 --> 01:53:37.890
to see how they were doing it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:37.890 --> 01:53:40.277
Now they were doing this and that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:40.280 --> 01:53:42.176
Something the other organized

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:42.176 --> 01:53:44.072
the Faculty Committee committee

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:44.072 --> 01:53:46.190
to consider a kind of tenure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:46.190 --> 01:53:48.458
At the institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:48.460 --> 01:53:50.218
Something that we had done earlier,

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:50.220 --> 01:53:52.390
but which had never really.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:52.390 --> 01:53:54.007
Been completely restructured.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:54.007 --> 01:53:56.163
Decided the institution needed

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:56.163 --> 01:53:59.450
a an educational. Handbook.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:53:59.450 --> 01:54:02.890
Begin to get a few people together to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:54:02.890 --> 01:54:04.858
To work on that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:54:04.860 --> 01:54:05.684
And a year later,

NOTE Confidence: 0.718265176666667

01:54:05.684 --> 01:54:06.920
when I went back for my.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:09.180 --> 01:54:13.388
For my vice presidential I had gone from.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:13.390 --> 01:54:16.006
In the faculty, I've gone from a system,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:16.010 --> 01:54:19.440
well, postdoc to assistant professor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:19.440 --> 01:54:21.918
Up to professor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:21.920 --> 01:54:24.356
And ultimately to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:24.356 --> 01:54:27.320
Tenured professor. Than to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:27.320 --> 01:54:31.850
Deputy Department head, department head.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:31.850 --> 01:54:34.910
Associate Vice President for research.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:34.910 --> 01:54:38.640
Vice President for academic affairs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:40.620
All in a mere 30 years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:40.620 --> 01:54:44.100
No, it wasn't quite that long, but.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:44.100 --> 01:54:47.084
But uh, well, when you consider all the

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:47.084 --> 01:54:50.117
steps that were taken actually 30 years

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:50.117 --> 01:54:53.220
isn't long but something never achieve it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:53.220 --> 01:54:54.340
But you know my this,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:54.340 --> 01:54:56.335
this is this is not really cogent

NOTE Confidence: 0.7936379625

01:54:56.335 --> 01:54:58.210
to the interview but, but.

NOTE Confidence: 0.887558686666667

01:55:01.240 --> 01:55:04.150
My whole career. Has been one.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:06.290 --> 01:55:07.229
Of of happenstance.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:07.229 --> 01:55:09.821
I just happened to be at the right

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:09.821 --> 01:55:12.110
place in the presence of the right

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:12.110 --> 01:55:15.210
person at the right time. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:15.210 --> 01:55:17.914
And have to go, you know, some modicum of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:17.914 --> 01:55:21.610
Of ability and the and the ability

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:21.717 --> 01:55:25.238
to work real hard and an absolute.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:25.240 --> 01:55:27.781
Affection for for the people that I

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:27.781 --> 01:55:29.874
was reporting to the I love working

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:29.874 --> 01:55:31.380
with Fred Becker's matter of fact,

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:31.380 --> 01:55:32.528
the most difficult thing

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:32.528 --> 01:55:33.676
about becoming Vice President,

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:33.680 --> 01:55:35.486
Frank Dimmick Affairs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:35.486 --> 01:55:37.894
Was was really leaving,

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:37.900 --> 01:55:40.660
leaving Fred Becker's office.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:40.660 --> 01:55:42.424
I consider him one of my one of my

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:42.424 --> 01:55:44.674
very best friends, a great mentor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882337812173913

01:55:44.674 --> 01:55:46.340
He was. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.915822686666667

01:55:50.760 --> 01:55:53.582
And it was. I had a sense that that

NOTE Confidence: 0.915822686666667

01:55:53.582 --> 01:55:55.505
we were, that we were really a

NOTE Confidence: 0.915822686666667

01:55:55.505 --> 01:55:57.988
really good team, you know, he. He.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:01.230 --> 01:56:02.818
We did good cop,

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:02.818 --> 01:56:05.110
bad cop routines a lot of the times.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:05.110 --> 01:56:08.684
And and. I was glad because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:08.684 --> 01:56:10.670
Always got to be good cop

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:10.748 --> 01:56:12.590
and that was good for me.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:12.590 --> 01:56:14.330
But, but Fred was very supportive

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:14.330 --> 01:56:16.134
of this transition and and we

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:16.134 --> 01:56:17.314
remained close colleagues for

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:17.314 --> 01:56:18.810
that whole period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:18.810 --> 01:56:20.526
And it's an interesting thing that

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:20.526 --> 01:56:22.311
under the current MD Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:22.311 --> 01:56:23.489
Administrative Structure,

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:23.490 --> 01:56:26.360
Research and education are all under one.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:26.360 --> 01:56:28.180
Or one central administrative unit,

NOTE Confidence: 0.848364255714286

01:56:28.180 --> 01:56:29.828
a very appropriate thing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8766539

01:56:31.950 --> 01:56:35.540
But from about September of 1982.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:38.870 --> 01:56:41.614
We began to to organize and expand

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:41.614 --> 01:56:44.279
and to resource and to coordinate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:44.280 --> 01:56:47.228
All the educational programs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:47.230 --> 01:56:50.548
Within, within the institution and although.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:50.550 --> 01:56:52.128
There has never been a job

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:52.128 --> 01:56:53.979
that I've had at MD Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:53.980 --> 01:56:57.368
That I didn't enjoy this business and

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:57.368 --> 01:56:59.656
academic affairs. Was exhilarated.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:56:59.656 --> 01:57:03.108
It it was absolutely the most.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:03.108 --> 01:57:06.380
The most incredible thing and I I used,

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:06.380 --> 01:57:08.726
I used to tell. Who matter?

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:08.730 --> 01:57:10.740
I said. You know, I hope.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:10.740 --> 01:57:12.306
I hope that you don't ever figure out that

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:12.306 --> 01:57:13.915
I would probably do this for nothing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:13.920 --> 01:57:15.660
I really enjoy cashing my paycheck,

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:15.660 --> 01:57:18.508
but I would probably do this for nothing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:18.510 --> 01:57:19.890
And we laughed and he said,

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:19.890 --> 01:57:20.496
well, I'll try.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820639118461539

01:57:20.496 --> 01:57:22.140
I'll try to give you something that's hard.

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:24.690 --> 01:57:27.810
And we ultimately developed a school

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:27.810 --> 01:57:32.730
of Allied health within the Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:32.730 --> 01:57:34.553
Which one of my colleagues, Dr.

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:34.553 --> 01:57:37.871
Ahern, has now gotten degree granting

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:37.871 --> 01:57:40.425
status with a few things left to go, so.

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:40.425 --> 01:57:45.290
So we've managed to to accomplish that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.844850423333333

01:57:45.290 --> 01:57:49.148
We we expanded our faculty advisors.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:57:52.480 --> 01:57:54.304
By fourfold over that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:57:54.304 --> 01:57:58.670
over that period of time. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:57:58.670 --> 01:58:03.390
And. And then five years I went

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:58:03.390 --> 01:58:05.600
to Doctor Mayer and I said.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:58:05.600 --> 01:58:07.480
I told you that I thought you ought

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:58:07.480 --> 01:58:09.659
to have me put to sleep in five years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:58:09.660 --> 01:58:12.240
but I think there's a few more things to do,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:58:12.240 --> 01:58:15.664
so if you're willing, I'll do it for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83596091

01:58:15.670 --> 01:58:16.850
Another couple of years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.849901245294118

01:58:19.600 --> 01:58:22.408
And what happened was that that

NOTE Confidence: 0.849901245294118

01:58:22.408 --> 01:58:25.653
I retired in that role and on

NOTE Confidence: 0.849901245294118

01:58:25.653 --> 01:58:28.760
the 31st of August. Of 1994.

NOTE Confidence: 0.826806146666667

01:58:31.670 --> 01:58:33.509
So I basically.

NOTE Confidence: 0.704313606666667

01:58:36.370 --> 01:58:38.860
199494 OK, I basically headed up.

NOTE Confidence: 0.878923095

01:58:42.320 --> 01:58:44.848
The academic affairs programs

NOTE Confidence: 0.878923095

01:58:44.848 --> 01:58:47.376
and the resources for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.878923095

01:58:47.380 --> 01:58:49.276
For that period of time and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87996024

01:58:52.030 --> 01:58:54.074
A couple of years after I became

NOTE Confidence: 0.87996024

01:58:54.074 --> 01:58:55.990
vice president for academic affairs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:58:59.320 --> 01:59:01.966
I had a. A priority problem in

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:01.966 --> 01:59:04.524
education and I had a priority

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:04.524 --> 01:59:07.206
problem going on in my laboratory.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:07.210 --> 01:59:07.948
And I thought,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:07.948 --> 01:59:09.670
I can't do both of these things,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:09.670 --> 01:59:13.830
which one will I have more fun doing?

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:13.830 --> 01:59:16.078
And I discovered some,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:16.078 --> 01:59:18.326
somewhat to my surprise.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:18.330 --> 01:59:20.660
That what I really wanted to do was to deal

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:20.715 --> 01:59:23.100
with the educational administration problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:23.100 --> 01:59:24.936
And not go over and deal

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:24.936 --> 01:59:26.160
with the laboratory problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:26.160 --> 01:59:29.256
So I kept a laboratory where we were

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:29.256 --> 01:59:32.206
continuing to do research on mass memory,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:32.210 --> 01:59:34.275
tumor virus and on a few other

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:34.275 --> 01:59:35.717
immunological things in collaboration

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:35.717 --> 01:59:37.689
with several other departments,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:37.690 --> 01:59:40.720
but principally the Department of Gynecology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:40.720 --> 01:59:45.214
As we were studying virally mediated

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:45.214 --> 01:59:48.210
immunotherapy of gynecological cancers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:48.210 --> 01:59:50.480
And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:50.480 --> 01:59:53.054
And I went to Doctor Meyer and I said

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:53.054 --> 01:59:55.509
earlier I made a very difficult decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:55.510 --> 01:59:57.310
But it would help me if you would

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:57.310 --> 01:59:59.131
put it on paper so that I can

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

01:59:59.131 --> 02:00:00.969
blame you for it in the future

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:00.969 --> 02:00:02.769
when I'm feeling remorse about it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:02.770 --> 02:00:04.926
We laughed and I closed down my

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:04.926 --> 02:00:06.706
laboratory that year and went

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:06.706 --> 02:00:08.286
went absolutely into full-time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:08.290 --> 02:00:08.847
undiminished.

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:08.847 --> 02:00:11.075
Educational administration and the

NOTE Confidence: 0.879151708947368

02:00:11.075 --> 02:00:14.780
only the only thing that I clung to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827453132083333

02:00:17.180 --> 02:00:20.447
From. From the older days as a as a

NOTE Confidence: 0.827453132083333

02:00:20.447 --> 02:00:23.383
faculty member was I still until until

NOTE Confidence: 0.827453132083333

02:00:23.383 --> 02:00:26.897
the last week that I worked at Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.827453132083333

02:00:26.900 --> 02:00:30.890
I still took every single opportunity to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827453132083333

02:00:30.890 --> 02:00:32.906
To get in front of the classroom.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827453132083333

02:00:32.910 --> 02:00:35.836
The. And that was when I also.

NOTE Confidence: 0.634122224444444

02:00:39.210 --> 02:00:41.402
With Darla Manners blessing,

NOTE Confidence: 0.634122224444444

02:00:41.402 --> 02:00:44.142
and often at his instigation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.634122224444444

02:00:44.150 --> 02:00:47.222
Set up a program for informing light people

NOTE Confidence: 0.634122224444444

02:00:47.222 --> 02:00:49.710
about cancer about cancer prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.634122224444444

02:00:49.710 --> 02:00:51.768
Sometime during this period and I'm

NOTE Confidence: 0.634122224444444

02:00:51.768 --> 02:00:53.898
trying to remember what year it was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:00:56.970 --> 02:00:58.965
Bafflement, her asked me if I'd be

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:00:58.965 --> 02:01:00.950
occasionally willing to take on a sort of

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:00.950 --> 02:01:02.819
a special assistant to the president role.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:02.820 --> 02:01:03.700
And I said, you bet.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:03.700 --> 02:01:06.524
You know, anything you think I can do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:06.530 --> 02:01:09.370
Let me know and and we'll do it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:09.370 --> 02:01:11.308
And during that period of time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:11.310 --> 02:01:13.386
I actually actually had several roles.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:13.390 --> 02:01:15.450
I was the administrative officer

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:15.450 --> 02:01:17.061
for Strategic Planning. For.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:17.061 --> 02:01:20.400
For a period of time that was a headache,

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:20.400 --> 02:01:22.880
but it was a wonderful experience because it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:22.880 --> 02:01:24.768
It gave us a chance to see what

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:24.768 --> 02:01:26.391
the faculty believed was going to

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:26.391 --> 02:01:28.643
be the vision for the future of MD

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:28.643 --> 02:01:30.561
Anderson and and to help them organize

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:30.561 --> 02:01:32.480
those thoughts into a real plan,

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:32.480 --> 02:01:34.568
and then to work with other

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:34.568 --> 02:01:36.140
institutions within the system to

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:36.140 --> 02:01:38.164
to see what they were doing and to

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:38.164 --> 02:01:40.457
and to try to coordinate with them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:40.460 --> 02:01:44.568
Ultimately, planning became

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:44.568 --> 02:01:47.400
an independent administrative.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:47.400 --> 02:01:49.998
Entity out of the President's office,

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:50.000 --> 02:01:51.778
which is where it should have gone.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:51.780 --> 02:01:53.327
But I played a role in getting

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:53.327 --> 02:01:54.540
that organized and was really,

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:54.540 --> 02:01:55.956
really proud of it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:55.956 --> 02:01:58.080
The and the planning structure didn't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:01:58.080 --> 02:02:00.410
Anderson is still a really

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:00.410 --> 02:02:01.512
significant planning structure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:01.512 --> 02:02:03.522
We're still matters vision, not mine.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:03.522 --> 02:02:05.748
But, but I felt good to

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:05.748 --> 02:02:08.447
have a role in playing and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:08.450 --> 02:02:10.712
And MD Anderson, right now it's

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:10.712 --> 02:02:12.939
updating its plan for the next.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:12.940 --> 02:02:14.884
For the next 10 or or so years

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:14.884 --> 02:02:16.869
and that that's really exciting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:16.870 --> 02:02:19.586
I admire and envy all the people

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:19.586 --> 02:02:22.100
that are getting quite a role in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:22.100 --> 02:02:23.524
I thought I would finish on that tape,

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:23.530 --> 02:02:24.334
but I didn't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:24.334 --> 02:02:26.550
No, we're not gonna finish on that tape.

NOTE Confidence: 0.837946792727272

02:02:26.550 --> 02:02:27.570
We got a little more here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.724605333333333

02:02:33.500 --> 02:02:37.646
Side five side 5 continuing interview.

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:41.870 --> 02:02:44.588
I want to mention one other.

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:44.590 --> 02:02:46.714
One other important aspect

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:46.714 --> 02:02:48.838
of the association that

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:48.838 --> 02:02:51.009
academic affairs had with the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:51.010 --> 02:02:53.625
With the present and future

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:53.625 --> 02:02:55.717
of of the institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:55.720 --> 02:02:58.336
But it actually goes back to when we

NOTE Confidence: 0.912647408333333

02:02:58.336 --> 02:03:00.669
were working to recruit Doctor Mader.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8364968975

02:03:03.460 --> 02:03:05.188
To become the president.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8364968975

02:03:05.188 --> 02:03:07.620
Of the Cancer Center. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.35447549

02:03:10.310 --> 02:03:14.900
Dark llamador. As a as an internist.

NOTE Confidence: 0.35447549

02:03:14.900 --> 02:03:20.522
Uh. Has been one of the nation's most

NOTE Confidence: 0.35447549

02:03:20.522 --> 02:03:25.310
eloquent and most vigorous. Forces.

NOTE Confidence: 0.35447549

02:03:25.310 --> 02:03:29.518
In our effort to deal with the diseases

NOTE Confidence: 0.35447549

02:03:29.518 --> 02:03:33.230
associated with smoke. The. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:36.920 --> 02:03:40.868
It was an unnatural consequence I think

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:40.868 --> 02:03:46.137
of of his interest that if you consider.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:46.140 --> 02:03:49.320
The fact that lung cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:49.320 --> 02:03:51.786
Was essentially killing more men and

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:51.786 --> 02:03:54.590
women than any other form of cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:54.590 --> 02:03:58.699
Every year was one of the cancers

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:03:58.699 --> 02:04:02.862
most difficult. To cure from.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:02.862 --> 02:04:06.566
From treatment and yet was easily

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:06.566 --> 02:04:09.140
one of the most preventable forms

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:09.226 --> 02:04:12.898
of cancer because 95% of all.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:12.900 --> 02:04:18.140
Lung cancers were smoking related. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:18.140 --> 02:04:22.526
Their their groove from this association.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:22.530 --> 02:04:26.046
I think in Darchula Maders vision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:26.050 --> 02:04:31.408
The need. To bring a coordinated

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:31.408 --> 02:04:34.980
and institution wide emphasis.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:34.980 --> 02:04:38.520
To MD Anderson Lung cancer prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:38.520 --> 02:04:40.400
To make.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:40.400 --> 02:04:43.385
Cancer prevention an equal mission

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:43.385 --> 02:04:45.773
with with cancer treatment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876232412

02:04:45.780 --> 02:04:49.604
But, but as we begin to to actually.

NOTE Confidence: 0.60197157

02:04:53.000 --> 02:04:54.250
Realize.

NOTE Confidence: 0.773571445

02:04:56.620 --> 02:04:58.080
A cancer prevention effort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.852785943333333

02:05:00.200 --> 02:05:01.118
In the institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:03.560 --> 02:05:07.220
We recognize that that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:07.220 --> 02:05:10.376
That the larger components of cancer

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:10.376 --> 02:05:13.590
prevention were essentially in epidemiology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:13.590 --> 02:05:16.278
In basic research and in education.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:16.280 --> 02:05:20.274
Uh. Particularly that part of

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:20.274 --> 02:05:22.704
education that focuses on awareness

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:22.704 --> 02:05:24.920
and personal intervention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:24.920 --> 02:05:30.622
For for prevention. The. So.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:30.622 --> 02:05:36.770
In this role as a kind of a program

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:36.770 --> 02:05:38.738
assistant for Doctor Amador.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:38.740 --> 02:05:41.530
He asked me if I would.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:41.530 --> 02:05:42.688
Temporarily. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:42.688 --> 02:05:46.162
Assume the role of acting Vice

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:46.162 --> 02:05:48.735
President for cancer prevention and

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:48.735 --> 02:05:52.510
to do what I could do to identify

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:52.510 --> 02:05:55.600
mainly and then to coordinate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:55.600 --> 02:05:57.495
And enhance the activities of

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:57.495 --> 02:05:59.390
the institution as they focused

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:05:59.454 --> 02:06:00.759
on cancer prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.9143833

02:06:00.760 --> 02:06:03.264
With the idea that ultimately there would be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:05.340 --> 02:06:09.530
Uh. An identifiable and functioning

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:09.530 --> 02:06:13.370
clinical component. Of prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:13.370 --> 02:06:16.540
The. As well as a coordinate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:16.540 --> 02:06:20.640
Research and educational component.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:20.640 --> 02:06:23.142
Of cancer prevention, and I'd always

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:23.142 --> 02:06:26.099
kind of shared the stream with him.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:26.100 --> 02:06:30.429
And so we put together a very small staff.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:30.430 --> 02:06:32.702
And within the confines of the office of

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:32.702 --> 02:06:35.137
the Vice President for academic affairs,

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:35.140 --> 02:06:38.716
we begin to organize the program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:38.720 --> 02:06:41.317
And cancer prevention as a mission statement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:41.320 --> 02:06:44.842
The we work through the institutional

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:44.842 --> 02:06:47.984
strategic plan to get a mission

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:47.984 --> 02:06:51.340
identified and incorporated. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:51.340 --> 02:06:55.036
We formed a faculty group for prevention,

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:55.040 --> 02:06:56.568
equivalent to the operational

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:56.568 --> 02:06:58.860
faculty groups for the other major

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:06:58.927 --> 02:07:00.897
mission areas of the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:00.900 --> 02:07:02.804
and before very long.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:02.804 --> 02:07:06.524
The we had a fair amount of

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:06.524 --> 02:07:08.777
faculty activity invested.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:08.780 --> 02:07:11.340
In areas that could.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:11.340 --> 02:07:13.472
That could easily be

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:13.472 --> 02:07:15.604
identified as as prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.720523077142857

02:07:15.610 --> 02:07:16.250
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:19.000 --> 02:07:23.626
There were, there were some administrative.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:23.630 --> 02:07:25.742
Flexibilities that had to

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:25.742 --> 02:07:27.854
be incorporated in because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:27.860 --> 02:07:29.068
Prevention research was going

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:29.068 --> 02:07:30.276
on in clinical departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:30.280 --> 02:07:32.288
It was going on in basic science departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:32.290 --> 02:07:34.300
That was going on in epidemiology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:34.300 --> 02:07:38.380
No one. Wanted essentially.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:38.380 --> 02:07:40.718
Another reporting line that they had to,

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:40.720 --> 02:07:43.306
that they had to deal with.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:43.310 --> 02:07:45.115
Or another layer of administrative

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:45.115 --> 02:07:47.560
bureaucracy that they had to deal with?

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:47.560 --> 02:07:50.485
The what they wanted was

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:50.485 --> 02:07:52.825
some self governance and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:52.830 --> 02:07:56.736
And some increased access to resources.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:07:56.740 --> 02:08:01.828
Well, the. Documenter understood that and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:01.830 --> 02:08:03.174
And he set that up for them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:03.180 --> 02:08:06.756
So what we were was much more of

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:06.756 --> 02:08:09.459
a coordinating body than we were.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:09.460 --> 02:08:10.254
A reporting.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:10.254 --> 02:08:10.651
Body.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:10.651 --> 02:08:13.430
But for about three years we worked

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:13.508 --> 02:08:15.918
and we organized and coordinated

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:15.918 --> 02:08:17.846
and developed a structure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:17.850 --> 02:08:20.590
For prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:20.590 --> 02:08:23.486
And then we began to look around the

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:23.486 --> 02:08:26.016
nation for a really strong prevention

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:26.016 --> 02:08:29.689
identity to come in and leave this program,

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:29.690 --> 02:08:32.746
we were able to recruit a couple of

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:32.746 --> 02:08:35.390
very powerful department heads to do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:35.390 --> 02:08:37.046
To do specific areas of research,

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:37.050 --> 02:08:39.860
particularly in the area of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:39.860 --> 02:08:42.870
Of Wellness and in epidemiology

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:42.870 --> 02:08:45.278
and in clinical prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:45.280 --> 02:08:48.528
And then we found within our own institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:48.530 --> 02:08:49.248
A leader,

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:49.248 --> 02:08:51.402
actually the chairman of one of

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:51.402 --> 02:08:53.999
our of our medical departments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:54.000 --> 02:08:56.170
Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861246295

02:08:56.170 --> 02:08:57.280
Doctor Bernard Levine.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:00.360 --> 02:09:02.740
Who was a very credible

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:02.740 --> 02:09:06.820
leader in prevention so?

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:06.820 --> 02:09:09.868
We approached Doctor Levine.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:09.870 --> 02:09:12.180
To become the vice president for

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:12.180 --> 02:09:14.810
prevention, of course it meant.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:14.810 --> 02:09:16.730
Restructuring his own career in India,

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:16.730 --> 02:09:18.730
Anderson because he was the

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:18.730 --> 02:09:19.930
chairman of gastroenterology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.884886693333333

02:09:19.930 --> 02:09:23.080
gastroenterology and of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.66584669

02:09:25.350 --> 02:09:26.610
Of GI oncology.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:28.960 --> 02:09:33.220
GI Oncology, gastrointestinal oncology and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:33.220 --> 02:09:36.531
You know, this meant basically leaving that

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:36.531 --> 02:09:39.086
position while retaining these clinical

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:39.086 --> 02:09:42.550
presence in GI oncology and becoming

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:42.550 --> 02:09:45.480
Vice President for cancer prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:45.480 --> 02:09:49.656
But he has done that and he's he's become.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:49.660 --> 02:09:54.480
Remarkable. A remarkable leader. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:54.480 --> 02:09:57.168
Having that role reminds me of that

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:57.168 --> 02:09:59.699
corny story about owning a big boat,

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:09:59.700 --> 02:10:01.415
the two happiest days of your life,

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:01.420 --> 02:10:03.540
or when you buy it and when you sell it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:03.540 --> 02:10:05.652
So I had an extraordinarily happy

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:05.652 --> 02:10:08.190
day when when I accepted that

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:08.190 --> 02:10:10.298
appointment from Doctor Mayer,

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:10.300 --> 02:10:12.628
and an extraordinarily happy day when

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:12.628 --> 02:10:15.478
I turned it over to Doctor Levine.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:15.480 --> 02:10:18.670
But. But Doctor Laminators vision

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:18.670 --> 02:10:21.222
was in fact realized.

NOTE Confidence: 0.679710308

02:10:21.230 --> 02:10:22.800
There and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:25.680 --> 02:10:27.865
And Doctor Levine now presides

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:27.865 --> 02:10:30.192
over a really, really strong.

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:30.192 --> 02:10:32.742
Program, that is, that is highly

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:32.742 --> 02:10:35.150
respected in the country and the world.

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:35.150 --> 02:10:37.454
It's highly integrated to the other

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:37.454 --> 02:10:38.990
activities of the institution.

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:38.990 --> 02:10:40.662
It has a clinical.

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:40.662 --> 02:10:41.916
Clinical prevention outlet,

NOTE Confidence: 0.73649166875

02:10:41.920 --> 02:10:43.388
this whole new facility.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7513686

02:10:45.530 --> 02:10:46.310
For prevention.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:10:48.550 --> 02:10:51.514
Clinical activity in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:10:51.514 --> 02:10:52.624
new in the new building,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:10:52.630 --> 02:10:55.626
which is now named for Doctor Lemaitre.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:10:55.630 --> 02:10:59.822
And. A good amount of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:10:59.822 --> 02:11:03.272
Of national respect in terms of both

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:03.272 --> 02:11:05.324
funding and of the impact of our sinus

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:05.324 --> 02:11:06.856
on what other institutions are doing

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:06.856 --> 02:11:08.816
and that turns out to be important.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:08.820 --> 02:11:11.094
Has a strong educational component that

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:11.094 --> 02:11:13.100
still coordinates with Economic Affairs,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:13.100 --> 02:11:14.960
a strong research component that coordinates

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:14.960 --> 02:11:17.626
with all of the research activities in

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:17.626 --> 02:11:20.328
the departments that are doing that that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:20.330 --> 02:11:21.846
That kind of work,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:21.846 --> 02:11:23.741
and a true identity within

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:23.741 --> 02:11:25.439
the overall mission.

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:25.440 --> 02:11:26.580
Of the institution,

NOTE Confidence: 0.7101395

02:11:26.580 --> 02:11:29.490
one of the one of the things that that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:31.670 --> 02:11:35.540
That came uniquely, with dark clamator.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:35.540 --> 02:11:36.682
Doctor meter.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:36.682 --> 02:11:40.108
Came in dedicated to building on.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:40.110 --> 02:11:42.520
Doctor Clark had begun dedicated

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:42.520 --> 02:11:45.449
to expanding what Doctor Clark had

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:45.449 --> 02:11:47.530
begun dedicated on, on organizing

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:47.530 --> 02:11:50.920
it in a way that would take it to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:50.920 --> 02:11:53.338
Into a new Millennium and brought

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:53.338 --> 02:11:55.900
his own vision to bear on it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:55.900 --> 02:11:58.791
so that when the time came for

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:11:58.791 --> 02:12:01.439
him to retire and step down.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:01.440 --> 02:12:02.760
And his successor?

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:02.760 --> 02:12:05.840
To come in with his own vision

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:05.933 --> 02:12:08.598
and his own effort. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:08.598 --> 02:12:14.346
A good solid, lively growth oriented.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:14.350 --> 02:12:17.647
Structure in all these areas was already.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:17.650 --> 02:12:19.660
In place it is, it is.

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:19.660 --> 02:12:21.780
It is so great to come in and

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:21.780 --> 02:12:23.473
leadership that is already a flagship

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:23.473 --> 02:12:25.690
so that you don't have to go in

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:25.690 --> 02:12:27.419
and bunker up the holes to keep

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:27.419 --> 02:12:29.154
them sinking while you're you're

NOTE Confidence: 0.582780496666667

02:12:29.154 --> 02:12:31.870
giving it a fresh coat of paint.

NOTE Confidence: 0.72831595

02:12:34.260 --> 02:12:37.579
Or as. Doctor Clark's vision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.828492662222222

02:12:39.940 --> 02:12:42.036
Incorporated himself into it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.828492662222222

02:12:42.036 --> 02:12:44.656
Doctor Llamador began to build

NOTE Confidence: 0.828492662222222

02:12:44.656 --> 02:12:47.266
almost from the first day that

NOTE Confidence: 0.828492662222222

02:12:47.266 --> 02:12:50.015
he was president. To a time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.828492662222222

02:12:50.015 --> 02:12:53.105
When he would be replaced by.

NOTE Confidence: 0.828492662222222

02:12:53.110 --> 02:12:54.478
By a successor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88495126125

02:12:57.380 --> 02:13:00.532
And it it was my privilege to have

NOTE Confidence: 0.88495126125

02:13:00.532 --> 02:13:04.020
been a part of both of those eras.

NOTE Confidence: 0.66956201

02:13:08.550 --> 02:13:10.800
Of MD Anderson's life of the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:13.930 --> 02:13:16.888
I basically saw what in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:16.888 --> 02:13:22.570
Anderson was in 1961. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:22.570 --> 02:13:27.410
Watched it grow to what it became and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:27.410 --> 02:13:29.825
1994 and this is the astronaut side.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:29.830 --> 02:13:32.830
Wow, it was a ride.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:32.830 --> 02:13:37.548
One question that came to mind was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:37.550 --> 02:13:39.930
Of course, it's all part of the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:39.930 --> 02:13:44.256
The the Greater Man Medical Center.

NOTE Confidence: 0.763539613333333

02:13:44.260 --> 02:13:45.040
Complex.

NOTE Confidence: 0.643357286

02:13:49.880 --> 02:13:53.530
What role our rephrase that?

NOTE Confidence: 0.86908941

02:13:57.450 --> 02:13:58.800
Is there a?

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:02.560 --> 02:14:05.086
Well defined role between the other

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:05.086 --> 02:14:08.489
and the hospital, the other hospitals.

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:08.490 --> 02:14:11.496
On the in the Texas Medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:11.496 --> 02:14:14.550
Center campus and MD Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:14.550 --> 02:14:19.072
Is there a? And somehow a coordinated

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:19.072 --> 02:14:21.124
effort with the hospitals,

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:21.130 --> 02:14:22.250
yeah, that's a good question.

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:22.250 --> 02:14:24.889
Then the answer is that that is

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:24.889 --> 02:14:27.617
that the role has been fluid over

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:27.617 --> 02:14:30.639
the years as as I've been able to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.809464658888889

02:14:30.640 --> 02:14:33.090
To perceive it now you.

NOTE Confidence: 0.831392929444444

02:14:35.110 --> 02:14:37.774
If you if you look at MD Anderson's

NOTE Confidence: 0.831392929444444

02:14:37.774 --> 02:14:39.940
Evolution and growth through a kind

NOTE Confidence: 0.831392929444444

02:14:39.940 --> 02:14:42.390
of a historical eye. No, there was a.

NOTE Confidence: 0.908467088571429

02:14:44.470 --> 02:14:47.235
There was a time when cancer patients

NOTE Confidence: 0.908467088571429

02:14:47.235 --> 02:14:49.768
did not have a lot going for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.908467088571429

02:14:49.770 --> 02:14:54.318
The. If surgery failed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.908467088571429

02:14:54.320 --> 02:14:56.450
Some hospitals had a radiotherapy

NOTE Confidence: 0.908467088571429

02:14:56.450 --> 02:14:57.798
capacity, many did not.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:14:59.930 --> 02:15:02.306
And so it was, it was,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:02.310 --> 02:15:04.896
it was in everybody's interest the

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:04.896 --> 02:15:08.004
patients the physician had A at a non

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:08.004 --> 02:15:10.622
cancer hospital and of an institutions

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:10.622 --> 02:15:13.856
like MD Anderson to refer that patient.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:13.860 --> 02:15:16.920
To institution that specialized in in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:16.920 --> 02:15:20.070
In cancer where you know some 3/4 of those

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:20.070 --> 02:15:22.409
patients became involved in one respect

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:22.409 --> 02:15:25.020
or another and a research protocol.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:25.020 --> 02:15:30.045
The but no good research

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:30.045 --> 02:15:33.060
ultimately becomes practice.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:33.060 --> 02:15:36.050
And that is nowhere truer, probably.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:36.050 --> 02:15:39.400
Uh. Then in two areas where.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:39.400 --> 02:15:42.015
Where. Where the Texas Medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:42.015 --> 02:15:44.107
Center has moral prominence,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:44.110 --> 02:15:47.180
one is in cardiovascular repair.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:47.180 --> 02:15:50.267
And the other one in cancer treats.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:50.270 --> 02:15:52.898
And with MD Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:52.900 --> 02:15:54.316
Research became practice

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:54.316 --> 02:15:56.676
over the years and and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:56.680 --> 02:15:59.790
And things that were considered.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:15:59.790 --> 02:16:02.430
Very experimental in the early

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:02.430 --> 02:16:05.070
60s are now standard practice

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:05.162 --> 02:16:07.538
with with a very very high.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:07.540 --> 02:16:10.060
Potential for cure with most forms of cancer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:10.060 --> 02:16:13.018
So the result of that is,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:13.020 --> 02:16:14.760
is that most institutions that were

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:14.760 --> 02:16:16.876
not doing a lot of cancer treatment

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:16.876 --> 02:16:19.715
in the older days are now hiring

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:19.715 --> 02:16:22.985
oncologists and and having their own.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:22.990 --> 02:16:24.482
Their own cancer units,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:24.482 --> 02:16:27.127
and that evolution is is nowhere more

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:27.127 --> 02:16:30.124
visible than it is in the Texas medical city.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:30.130 --> 02:16:31.186
Across now, St.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:31.186 --> 02:16:33.650
Lukes has its own big oncology program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:33.650 --> 02:16:35.765
The method that has its

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:35.765 --> 02:16:37.888
own big oncology program,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:37.888 --> 02:16:41.850
the Harman being being such a good,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:41.850 --> 02:16:45.159
strong UT affiliate.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:45.160 --> 02:16:47.687
Has has much more of a coordinate

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:47.687 --> 02:16:49.987
oncology program with MD Anderson than

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:49.987 --> 02:16:52.654
the other institutions that are that are,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:52.660 --> 02:16:54.164
that are more independent,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:54.164 --> 02:16:56.420
but there is in fact exchange

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:56.496 --> 02:16:57.640
and coordination.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:57.640 --> 02:16:59.890
Between all institutions in the Medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:16:59.890 --> 02:17:02.501
Center and in in this institution and

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:02.501 --> 02:17:05.340
that's been going on for a long time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:05.340 --> 02:17:08.335
there was a a remarkable

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:08.335 --> 02:17:10.132
wonderful pediatric oncologist

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:10.132 --> 02:17:13.299
at Texas Children's Hospital.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:13.300 --> 02:17:16.639
In the early days of my appointment

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:16.639 --> 02:17:19.989
at MD Anderson named Don Fernbach.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:19.990 --> 02:17:22.642
And when when MD Anderson mounted

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:22.642 --> 02:17:24.913
its huge pediatric leukemia program

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:24.913 --> 02:17:27.048
under the leadership of Doctor

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:27.048 --> 02:17:29.200
Grant Taylor and his team.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:29.200 --> 02:17:31.170
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:31.170 --> 02:17:33.696
There was obviously the the opportunity

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:33.696 --> 02:17:35.760
for competition for patients and

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:35.760 --> 02:17:37.704
for other things between Texas

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:37.704 --> 02:17:40.239
Children's leukemia Group and MD

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:40.239 --> 02:17:42.230
Anderson's pediatric Leukemia group.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:42.230 --> 02:17:45.728
The and probably there was a

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:45.728 --> 02:17:47.318
little bit of competition and

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:47.318 --> 02:17:48.590
perhaps some rivalry there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:48.590 --> 02:17:52.146
But what was more remarkable was the

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:52.146 --> 02:17:55.638
constant exchange of ideas and sharing of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:55.640 --> 02:17:58.536
Of training efforts and things of that sort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:17:58.540 --> 02:18:01.132
So one of the things that

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:01.132 --> 02:18:02.860
that is somewhat unexpected,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:02.860 --> 02:18:05.495
particularly given the the profit

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:05.495 --> 02:18:08.130
strains that exists in medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:08.219 --> 02:18:11.328
institutions now is that there is that

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:11.328 --> 02:18:13.656
there is this much coordinate effort.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:13.660 --> 02:18:15.528
Is as there is.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:15.528 --> 02:18:17.396
MD Anderson's oncology program

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:17.396 --> 02:18:20.356
is not as unique in the Medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:20.356 --> 02:18:23.270
Center as it was 20 years ago.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:23.270 --> 02:18:26.630
But there is still a coordinate program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:26.630 --> 02:18:29.122
Still referral going on,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:29.122 --> 02:18:32.860
still exchange of of ideas and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:32.860 --> 02:18:35.668
And technology and I think that

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:35.668 --> 02:18:38.320
until cancer cures are routine,

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:38.320 --> 02:18:41.428
that kind of coordinate effort will probably.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:41.430 --> 02:18:45.678
Continue. Because no one has all the answers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:45.680 --> 02:18:48.119
There is a Cancer Center and I cannot for

NOTE Confidence: 0.937651638333333

02:18:48.119 --> 02:18:50.557
the life of me think of the name of it,

NOTE Confidence: 0.880654928888889

02:18:50.560 --> 02:18:51.872
but you'll know it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.880654928888889

02:18:51.872 --> 02:18:53.512
It's located in Saint Josephs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:18:55.760 --> 02:18:58.324
Yeah, doctor, Stalin screwed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:18:58.324 --> 02:19:00.402
That's right. And you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:00.402 --> 02:19:02.250
Doctor Stalin trained and was on the

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:02.310 --> 02:19:04.654
faculty of the Anderson. No, I didn't.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:04.654 --> 02:19:09.144
Far, far, many years. He wanted.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:09.144 --> 02:19:13.323
Saint Joseph needed needed an oncology group.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:13.330 --> 02:19:17.578
And he wanted to pursue a specific line of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:17.580 --> 02:19:19.556
Of science, and as far as I'm aware,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:19.560 --> 02:19:21.284
it's very good science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:21.284 --> 02:19:24.095
And you know, the Doctor Salon

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:24.095 --> 02:19:26.620
for years attended our seminars.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:26.620 --> 02:19:28.250
We had numerous research projects

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:28.250 --> 02:19:29.880
with his basic science unit,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:29.880 --> 02:19:31.860
but he specializes in melanomas,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:31.860 --> 02:19:36.048
doesn't and. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:36.050 --> 02:19:39.274
But the but the group down there broadened.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:39.280 --> 02:19:43.956
Yes, they developed a small but very,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:43.960 --> 02:19:47.088
very potent basic science.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:47.090 --> 02:19:49.705
Program and their their so-called

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:49.705 --> 02:19:53.114
nude mouse program that the the

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:53.114 --> 02:19:55.926
immunologically tolerant mass colony.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:55.930 --> 02:19:58.750
Uh, that was developed down there.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:19:58.750 --> 02:20:01.430
Is is is one of the best in the world,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:01.430 --> 02:20:03.138
and some of the work that's come

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:03.138 --> 02:20:04.750
out of there is some of the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:04.750 --> 02:20:08.460
Of the Seminole work that's been done.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:08.460 --> 02:20:11.988
In that field and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:11.990 --> 02:20:14.726
No, I don't know what the statistics are now,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:14.730 --> 02:20:16.755
but there was a time in my career in

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:16.755 --> 02:20:18.945
the Anderson where it was pointed out.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:18.950 --> 02:20:21.050
That.

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:21.050 --> 02:20:23.060
That MD Anderson was saying

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:23.060 --> 02:20:24.266
2000 new patients,

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:24.270 --> 02:20:25.950
I'm sure the number is much bigger

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:25.950 --> 02:20:27.468
than that now 2000 new patients

NOTE Confidence: 0.755153616666667

02:20:27.468 --> 02:20:28.798
in its clinic every month.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89640985

02:20:30.820 --> 02:20:31.250
And the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855651533333333

02:20:33.520 --> 02:20:37.240
And we had a bed capacity.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855651533333333

02:20:37.240 --> 02:20:41.030
That was some 85 to 95% full.

NOTE Confidence: 0.855651533333333

02:20:41.030 --> 02:20:45.390
At all times and yet we were seeing

NOTE Confidence: 0.855651533333333

02:20:45.514 --> 02:20:47.710
about 13% of the cancer in Texas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:20:49.750 --> 02:20:53.450
So the bad news is, is that then and now?

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:20:53.450 --> 02:20:57.226
There's more than enough cancer to go around.

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:20:57.230 --> 02:20:58.970
And what all of these institutions

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:20:58.970 --> 02:21:00.783
are doing is working independently and

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:21:00.783 --> 02:21:02.883
together to try to do themselves out

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:21:02.883 --> 02:21:05.138
of a job as far as cancer is concerned,

NOTE Confidence: 0.891062968

02:21:05.140 --> 02:21:06.218
I'll be happy when they do it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:08.530 --> 02:21:10.114
Doctor Clark always used to say

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:10.114 --> 02:21:11.692
that our staff meetings, you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:11.692 --> 02:21:13.780
let's get the cancer problem out of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:13.840 --> 02:21:15.865
way so we can go on to something else.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:15.870 --> 02:21:17.566
But, you know, there's still plenty to do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:17.570 --> 02:21:19.338
Unfortunately, it's.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:19.338 --> 02:21:23.326
It's it's for it doesn't take even

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:23.326 --> 02:21:25.777
a layman to realize that it's it's

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:25.777 --> 02:21:28.395
extremely complex and in terms of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:28.395 --> 02:21:30.723
academics you know the the the Texas

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:30.723 --> 02:21:33.974
Medical Center is a is a remarkable

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:33.974 --> 02:21:38.334
example of of inter institutional.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:38.340 --> 02:21:41.052
Collaboration, yeah, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:41.052 --> 02:21:44.772
If you. If you just take.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:44.772 --> 02:21:48.580
My own career is 1 minuscule example.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:48.580 --> 02:21:52.600
I had. I had teaching appointments.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:52.600 --> 02:21:54.840
Not only at Anderson and the Graduate School,

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:54.840 --> 02:21:57.794
but at the dental school at Texas

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:57.794 --> 02:21:59.559
Woman's University School of

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:21:59.559 --> 02:22:02.091
Nursing and at the Texas Medical

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:02.091 --> 02:22:03.720
Center Combined Program for.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:03.720 --> 02:22:06.056
For medical insider technology,

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:06.056 --> 02:22:08.976
which was affiliated with Baylor.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:08.980 --> 02:22:13.020
So they're just in my one small area.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:13.020 --> 02:22:17.070
There were five institutions involved, and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:17.070 --> 02:22:18.326
In in coordinate programs,

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:18.326 --> 02:22:20.976
and I was just one of many faculty

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:20.976 --> 02:22:23.419
who were doing who were doing that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:23.420 --> 02:22:25.980
So institutional cooperation is extensive,

NOTE Confidence: 0.819543629

02:22:25.980 --> 02:22:27.550
but it's also very independent.

NOTE Confidence: 0.877750628888889

02:22:33.190 --> 02:22:34.610
Are there any areas that

NOTE Confidence: 0.877750628888889

02:22:34.610 --> 02:22:35.746
we haven't covered that?

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:37.940 --> 02:22:40.558
Well, you know, I, I've tried to,

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:40.560 --> 02:22:43.398
I've tried to move somewhat to

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:43.398 --> 02:22:45.290
biographically through the things

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:45.372 --> 02:22:47.724
that were happening at MD Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:47.724 --> 02:22:50.456
over the period of time. That.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:50.456 --> 02:22:56.450
That I was there and. You know.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:56.450 --> 02:22:58.448
In the middle of the night tonight I may

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:22:58.448 --> 02:23:00.370
think of something that that Oh my gosh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:23:00.370 --> 02:23:03.169
I wish that we had talked about that because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.784559908571429

02:23:03.170 --> 02:23:04.638
Because that was important.

NOTE Confidence: 0.897540654285714

02:23:07.200 --> 02:23:09.237
But in this long period of time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.897540654285714

02:23:09.240 --> 02:23:12.764
I feel as though. That I've covered

NOTE Confidence: 0.897540654285714

02:23:12.764 --> 02:23:14.604
the highlights of my association.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858775734166667

02:23:17.800 --> 02:23:20.719
It's highly personal and I I hope

NOTE Confidence: 0.858775734166667

02:23:20.719 --> 02:23:23.120
that that doesn't diminish the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858775734166667

02:23:23.120 --> 02:23:25.710
Things because it has to be purchased.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858775734166667

02:23:25.710 --> 02:23:27.873
Many of us, many of us who

NOTE Confidence: 0.858775734166667

02:23:27.873 --> 02:23:29.809
will speak to you in this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.858775734166667

02:23:29.810 --> 02:23:35.290
Are. Are individual. And.

NOTE Confidence: 0.528520405

02:23:37.380 --> 02:23:38.510
And component.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87582922

02:23:40.880 --> 02:23:43.795
Scenes of what was happening

NOTE Confidence: 0.87582922

02:23:43.795 --> 02:23:46.127
in the institution over.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87582922

02:23:46.130 --> 02:23:47.760
Over that period of time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:23:51.830 --> 02:23:53.490
And that's basically the

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:23:53.490 --> 02:23:55.565
way I think we're going.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:23:55.570 --> 02:23:59.130
We're going to see it. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:23:59.130 --> 02:24:03.972
You know, I I had a marvelous opportunity to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:24:03.980 --> 02:24:06.360
To work under 2 presidents.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:24:06.360 --> 02:24:10.008
With two administrative styles.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:24:10.010 --> 02:24:11.978
But both of them absolutely focused

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:24:11.978 --> 02:24:14.498
on the same, on the same goals.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:24:14.498 --> 02:24:17.758
And both of them, each of them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882799304444445

02:24:17.758 --> 02:24:20.190
With the capacity. To.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905001028181818

02:24:23.400 --> 02:24:26.067
To cause the rest of us who

NOTE Confidence: 0.905001028181818

02:24:26.067 --> 02:24:27.690
were associated with them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905001028181818

02:24:27.690 --> 02:24:30.520
To invest in in those.

NOTE Confidence: 0.905001028181818

02:24:30.520 --> 02:24:31.354
And those girls,

NOTE Confidence: 0.905001028181818

02:24:31.354 --> 02:24:33.022
and the thing that I've said

NOTE Confidence: 0.905001028181818

02:24:33.022 --> 02:24:34.476
before that is that it's so.

NOTE Confidence: 0.78103836

02:24:37.280 --> 02:24:40.660
So remarkable about MD Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.78103836

02:24:40.660 --> 02:24:42.916
Is is the individual and collective

NOTE Confidence: 0.78103836

02:24:42.916 --> 02:24:45.740
sense of ownership of MD Anderson's miss?

NOTE Confidence: 0.943771726

02:24:50.760 --> 02:24:53.900
Let me ask you this, I know there of the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810232145

02:24:56.420 --> 02:24:58.168
History Committee is interested.

NOTE Confidence: 0.810232145

02:24:58.168 --> 02:24:59.916
Perhaps in one day.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:02.020 --> 02:25:04.927
And then that is the future. Of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:04.927 --> 02:25:09.612
Having photographs that people might

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:09.612 --> 02:25:14.199
have duplicated. For a. Archive.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:14.199 --> 02:25:19.631
Or papers that might be similarly donated or

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:19.631 --> 02:25:24.026
duplicated if the person wants the cops back.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:24.030 --> 02:25:26.970
For this archive, and I'd like

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:26.970 --> 02:25:30.530
you to think about that somewhere.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:30.530 --> 02:25:32.982
Now won't line and I will, I will.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:32.982 --> 02:25:35.250
I just have a few collected over the years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:35.250 --> 02:25:37.270
but I will look at those and any that I have,

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:37.270 --> 02:25:38.862
I would be glad.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:38.862 --> 02:25:42.346
To have if they were valuable and useful,

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:42.346 --> 02:25:47.690
it's easy. Yeah, they have a lab and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:47.690 --> 02:25:49.832
You know all the needs that would

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:49.832 --> 02:25:51.510
go with reproducing photographs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:51.510 --> 02:25:53.337
So I know people don't like to

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:53.337 --> 02:25:55.429
give up their personal photographs.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:55.430 --> 02:25:56.786
Well, I would have no problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:56.790 --> 02:25:59.548
I would have no problem with that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:25:59.550 --> 02:26:01.486
One of the nice things about that is,

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:01.490 --> 02:26:03.794
is that is that the institution

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:03.794 --> 02:26:05.918
has has kept excellent photographic

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:05.918 --> 02:26:07.966
records over the years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:07.970 --> 02:26:10.130
So much of what any of us have are already

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:10.183 --> 02:26:12.185
going to be in the institutional files.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:12.190 --> 02:26:14.164
May take some digging to get them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:14.170 --> 02:26:15.868
I was laughing when you when

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:15.868 --> 02:26:17.570
you told me that because.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:17.570 --> 02:26:22.586
One of my favorite and most amusing memories.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:22.590 --> 02:26:24.054
Of my initial.

NOTE Confidence: 0.747143046666667

02:26:24.054 --> 02:26:26.006
Contact with MD Anderson.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:28.490 --> 02:26:32.099
Was. A picture that I had been sent there

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:32.099 --> 02:26:35.599
was available for purchase for a dollar

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:35.599 --> 02:26:41.600
or some some nothing amount of money the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:41.600 --> 02:26:44.660
Some 8 by 10 color.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:44.660 --> 02:26:47.740
Photographs of Medical Center institutions.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:47.740 --> 02:26:50.330
There was an aerial photograph of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:50.330 --> 02:26:52.247
whole Medical Center. And you know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:52.247 --> 02:26:54.130
when I first came to MD Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:54.130 --> 02:26:55.426
there were lots of trees around

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:55.426 --> 02:26:57.299
and there was a period of time when

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:57.299 --> 02:26:58.733
we didn't have much green space.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:26:58.740 --> 02:27:00.840
It was all parking lots and.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:00.840 --> 02:27:02.066
And buildings.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:02.066 --> 02:27:08.150
But uh, I mean there was a woods between.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:08.150 --> 02:27:10.780
Where Andy Anderson's clinic now

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:10.780 --> 02:27:12.884
sits and Holcombe Blvd.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:12.890 --> 02:27:15.170
When I first came here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:15.170 --> 02:27:16.790
Hurricane Carla did a good

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:16.790 --> 02:27:18.410
bit to diminish those woods,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:18.410 --> 02:27:20.561
and we had a few of those streets coming

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:20.561 --> 02:27:24.460
through our windows when the storm hit the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:24.460 --> 02:27:26.140
The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:26.140 --> 02:27:28.220
Even the experience of that storm was a

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:28.220 --> 02:27:30.100
remarkable piece of indie Anderson's history.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:30.100 --> 02:27:31.012
You know, people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:31.012 --> 02:27:32.836
People that were not physicians were

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:32.836 --> 02:27:34.453
there Wheeling patients on their

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:34.453 --> 02:27:36.337
journeys out of their rooms because

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:36.395 --> 02:27:38.020
their windows were breaking out,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:38.020 --> 02:27:39.930
because the storm came from.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:39.930 --> 02:27:40.414
From there,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:40.414 --> 02:27:41.866
and as far as I know,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:41.870 --> 02:27:43.515
the eye of Hurricane Carla came right

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:43.515 --> 02:27:44.910
through the Texas Medical Center,

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:44.910 --> 02:27:46.266
right down Holcomb Blvd.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:46.266 --> 02:27:48.735
And it stripped slabs of pink marble

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:48.735 --> 02:27:51.318
off the buildings and dropped them onto.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:51.320 --> 02:27:52.756
On automobiles and everyone.

NOTE Confidence: 0.842177367826087

02:27:52.756 --> 02:27:55.489
Everyone stayed there for most of the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:27:59.910 --> 02:28:01.644
And, you know, everybody was pitching

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:01.644 --> 02:28:03.657
in just just to to bring water

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:03.657 --> 02:28:05.526
and helpful and to talk to people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:05.530 --> 02:28:07.030
And, you know, everybody was scared,

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:07.030 --> 02:28:07.614
really scared.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:07.614 --> 02:28:09.366
I never experienced a hurricane before.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:09.370 --> 02:28:10.486
I grew up in North Texas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:10.490 --> 02:28:11.630
I knew what a tornado was.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:11.630 --> 02:28:12.935
But hurricane seemed even more

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:12.935 --> 02:28:14.567
scary to me because the tornado

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:14.567 --> 02:28:15.937
came and went and hurried.

NOTE Confidence: 0.822321978

02:28:15.940 --> 02:28:17.450
But at any rate, the.

NOTE Confidence: 0.880396716363636

02:28:20.420 --> 02:28:22.226
I have asked someone and I can't

NOTE Confidence: 0.880396716363636

02:28:22.226 --> 02:28:23.830
even remember who now, but it was

NOTE Confidence: 0.880396716363636

02:28:23.830 --> 02:28:24.780
some member of the department.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:27.000 --> 02:28:28.953
To send me some information about MD

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:28.953 --> 02:28:31.140
Anderson and in the and in the envelope.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:31.140 --> 02:28:34.860
That I was still in in Corvallis at the time.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:34.860 --> 02:28:38.344
There was this 8 by 10 picture. The.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:38.344 --> 02:28:43.288
And it showed the initial clinic,

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:43.290 --> 02:28:45.186
the old building of India Anderson,

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:45.190 --> 02:28:46.837
there was a ramp that went up to the

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:46.837 --> 02:28:48.350
clinic and then came back down again

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:48.350 --> 02:28:49.810
where you could drop patients off.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:49.810 --> 02:28:51.698
And then the hospital went up above it

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:51.698 --> 02:28:53.757
and the research wing was at the back.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:53.760 --> 02:28:56.092
So there was this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:28:56.092 --> 02:29:00.190
This is very definitive. Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:00.190 --> 02:29:02.135
Structural signature of the building

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:02.135 --> 02:29:05.060
in those days and there was this this.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:05.060 --> 02:29:06.590
Sun drenched.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:06.590 --> 02:29:11.170
8 by 10 color photograph of the

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:11.170 --> 02:29:13.045
clinic entrance in the Anderson

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:13.045 --> 02:29:15.150
showing most of the building.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:15.150 --> 02:29:18.198
With this enormous fountain.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:18.200 --> 02:29:19.040
Up in front of it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:19.040 --> 02:29:20.150
Beautiful, beautiful picture.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:20.150 --> 02:29:22.740
I'm sure I still have it somewhere.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:22.740 --> 02:29:25.119
In my books.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:25.120 --> 02:29:27.400
Well, one weekend after I had been here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:27.400 --> 02:29:29.460
Two or three weeks.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:29.460 --> 02:29:32.473
I had been in to to get an

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:32.473 --> 02:29:34.328
experiment done on Sunday afternoon.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:34.330 --> 02:29:35.122
And I went,

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:35.122 --> 02:29:37.343
I just went for a walk around the

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:37.343 --> 02:29:39.506
Medical Center and and suddenly it hit

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:39.506 --> 02:29:42.115
me to go and look for that fountain.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:42.120 --> 02:29:45.348
Well, after considerable search.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:45.350 --> 02:29:47.045
I found what the photographer

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:47.045 --> 02:29:48.740
had done with that picture.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:48.740 --> 02:29:53.980
This beautiful cascading fountain.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:53.980 --> 02:29:55.880
Was nothing of the kind.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:55.880 --> 02:29:59.842
It was a tiny little sort of

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:29:59.842 --> 02:30:02.736
lawn sprinkler size fountain in

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:02.736 --> 02:30:06.495
front of a hedge in front of.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:06.500 --> 02:30:08.660
Saint Luke's Hospital and the

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:08.660 --> 02:30:10.820
photographer had obviously gotten gotten

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:10.883 --> 02:30:12.881
down on his belly and photographed

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:12.881 --> 02:30:15.080
this picture of him being interested

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:15.080 --> 02:30:17.085
through this little screen with

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:17.085 --> 02:30:19.535
water because he was looking for

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:19.535 --> 02:30:21.610
something in the foreground that

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:21.610 --> 02:30:24.838
would give some structure to this huge pink.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:24.840 --> 02:30:26.490
Uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:26.490 --> 02:30:28.910
Imposing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:28.910 --> 02:30:31.580
Building.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:31.580 --> 02:30:34.838
And we always used to say.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:34.840 --> 02:30:38.529
When we would encounter a big problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:38.530 --> 02:30:38.922
That.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:38.922 --> 02:30:41.666
That probably this problem is a Saint

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:41.666 --> 02:30:43.579
Luke's fountain kind of problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:43.580 --> 02:30:46.095
It's much smaller than it

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:46.095 --> 02:30:48.107
seems at first glance.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:48.110 --> 02:30:50.734
And that became a kind of a standing

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:50.734 --> 02:30:53.330
joke of the department for years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:53.330 --> 02:30:53.713
Well,

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:53.713 --> 02:30:56.011
this has been truly an informative

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:56.011 --> 02:30:58.174
interview and you've been very patient

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:30:58.174 --> 02:31:00.226
to sit here this long, and ohh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:00.226 --> 02:31:01.654
I've enjoyed every moment of it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:01.660 --> 02:31:03.544
You're the one who's been patient

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:03.544 --> 02:31:06.043
and I really hope that it is in the

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:06.043 --> 02:31:07.940
style that you're interested in.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:07.940 --> 02:31:10.015
I'm telling you the truth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:10.020 --> 02:31:13.056
Alright, I'm very happy with it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:13.060 --> 02:31:16.040
I do have some forms that need to be signed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:16.040 --> 02:31:18.560
It's simply I have to sign 1/2.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:18.560 --> 02:31:22.480
What it does is give the MD

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:22.480 --> 02:31:25.128
Anderson Cancer Center rights

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:25.128 --> 02:31:27.960
to use this publication.

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:27.960 --> 02:31:29.794
I'm going to sign it too because

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:29.794 --> 02:31:31.270
we both have copyright into

NOTE Confidence: 0.781928254666667

02:31:31.270 --> 02:31:32.850
it and assigns it away.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841388254117647

02:31:36.380 --> 02:31:38.795
And on that note, I will terminate

NOTE Confidence: 0.841388254117647

02:31:38.795 --> 02:31:40.988
the interview with Deep Thanks on

NOTE Confidence: 0.841388254117647

02:31:40.988 --> 02:31:43.156
behalf of the committee. Thank you.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841388254117647

02:31:43.156 --> 02:31:45.499
It's been a joy. Alright, thank you.