Chapter 02: Experiencing Culture Shock in the United States

Chapter 02: Experiencing Culture Shock in the United States

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Description

Dr. Hung emphasizes that he loves Taiwan, but simply had to emigrate to the United States in order to build a serious career in the sciences. He describes the process of finding U.S. institutions to apply to and explains how he ended up going to Brandeis University (Waltham, Massachusetts) for his Ph.D. program in biochemistry.

Dr. Hung explains the meaning of his first name (bright + strange or outstanding) and also his wife’s name. He explains that Brandeis offered positions to them both, a strong factor in his deciding to go there.

Next Dr. Hung talks about the culture shock he experienced in the seventies then explains how important for international students to understand that they are representatives of their countries of origin.

Identifier

HumgMC_01_20140220_C02

Publication Date

2-20-2014

City

Houston, Texas

Topics Covered

The Interview Subject's Story - Personal Background; Character, Values, Beliefs, Talents; Personal Background; Professional Path; Experiences Related to Gender, Race, Ethnicity; Mentoring; The Mentor

Transcript

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Wow. Yeah. Right? Advances. So tell me about your decision to leave Taiwan and do your Ph.D. in the US.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

I --- You know that’s a very easy answer, okay? Taiwan --- You want to be a scientist? You want to do science in Taiwan? Yes, I love Taiwan. I still love Taiwan. I to to Taiwan very often now because I am still on a lot of committees, but wait a minute. We don’t have lots of resources. We don’t have lots of good environments. Right after World War II --- Remember during World War II that --- you probably don’t remember --- but the B29 from Taiwan, okay? Taiwan was very poor after World War II. Taiwan was owned by --- was governed by Japan. It was considered Japanese. At that time it was very common for people in National Taiwan University in the top departments, many of them, if they wanted to be scientists they had to go abroad_______ (0:24:46.6). So it was common. This was an easy question. Why I should come to the United States? Because I wanted to be a scientist. and And you want to be a top scientist, then you better go to the best place. Like in Taiwan I went to NTU, National Taiwan University, but in after training at NTU, I came to United States. It’s still true right now, although right now we are more competitive. Now the whole world is coming up. But 20-30 years ago this was the place to do it. So then I …

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

How did that happen? I mean di --- was --- did you make connections? You just tried? I mean what was the process?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Oh, yeah. At that time I studied for my Masters there because I --- I told you my undergraduate, I was not a top student. I knew I --- if I applied it was unlikely. When I was a Master student I stayed in the lab. I spent time. I produced a lot of data. We published quite a few papers, so from my Master thesis I published three or four papers. So it was very impressive to check the records. So then you --- then I applied for United States for --- I still applied to biochemistry programs, of course. Yeah and sI applied quite a few places, and then of course we had to go through those databases. A andnd at that time there was no --- no Google, no Yahoo, right? So you had to go through the American Institution of Education to do something. There’s a --- There’s --- From United States, there’s some institution in Taiwan, Taipei actually , then you can go there to borrow their library --- to the library to borrow --- to look in for the index of what university is the best, and in which field, and those kinds of databases. Now it’s very easy because you can go to a website, but at that time you had look one by one, page by page. That’s what I was looking for, which university was good in biochemistry. And then apply to them and --- and also looking for their criteria requirements. I had to pass TOEFL, GRE, and that kind of stuff.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Right. How did you choose BrandiceBrandeis?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Ahh go --- good question. I actually applied to MIT, BrandiceBrandeis, UC Berkeley, and Yale. MIT is the only one that rejected me. All the rest accepted me. And my wife and I were classmates, so both of us applied.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Oh, okay. So you were married before you came to the US?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Oh yeah, yeah.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

And your wife’s name?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Kinglan Chen.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

K-i-m?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

K-i-n-g.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

K-i-n-j.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

This is another interesting story. Kinglan.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

K-i-n-j-l-a-n.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

K-i-n-g.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Oh, G.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

L-a-n.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

L-a-n.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

She should have spelled it J-i-n-g-l-a-n, because her Chinese name is Jinglan. But because in Taiwan Jing is King, it’s gold, so she put Kinglan. But when everybody --- she’s my classmate --- when everybody said Kinglan they thought she was me and I was her.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Oh, interesting.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Male.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yeah.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

King.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Right. Sure.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Ah anyway. So she --- she and I started Brandice Brandeis together. We were classmates. So my professor always mixed us up. Hung --- Hung --- Mien-Chie Hung

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: is a she and then Kinglan --- and people still feel that way because it’s --- I mean King, right? That’s male. Right?

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Does your --- Does your name mean something in Chinese?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Yes.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

What does it mean?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Mien --- I didn’t spell that very well, but Mien-Chie. Mien actually means --- it’s --- in Chinese characters it is the sun and the moon together. S soo in Chinese meaning --- so when I write the Chinese character, Mien it is the sun and the moon together. A and then the meaning, it means bright, right? And Chie in Chinese is two meanings, either strange or outstanding, so I pick outstanding. It’s an unusual one. Unusual could be strange right?

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

In a good way.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

It could be outstanding.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

I always think strange is actually a plus.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And my wife’s name was Jinglan. Jing was King was gold and lan is an orchid. It’s a flower. So meaning “golden flower.” You know all those Chinese names always have meanings, so golden flower. At the time, when we were in Taiwan, because of our spelling it’s based on some very limited type of a --- a--- a ---- dictionary. So I mean she picked up king and now even translated I will translate Jinglan. And also and even my name, I don’t spell this way, either. I spell it Ming because of Ming --very clearly, Ming Dynasty. But here it’s Mien. Actually my Chinese name is Ming-Chie. So I apologize. It’s too late. I cannot change it anyway.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

You can’t change it. Nice --- Nice stories though, and it’s always interesting to hear what’s behind those. So back to coming to Brandice Brandeis and why you chose Brandice Brandeis, since everyone else accepted you.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

That’s another interesting story. I have a lot of interesting stories if you want to talk. We may have to talk three times. Okay so --- so obviously I applied and then we hade a lot of professiornals who came from United States. My advisor was from --- graduated with a Ph.D. from University of San Francisco, and there’s another one from Illinois, and so on. So, I wanted to go to a university where I can do good science. UC Berkeley --- We have a lot of alumni who went to UC Berkeley, because California you know it’s closer. B, but UC Berkeley’s offer to both of us was a little bit late, and BrandiceBrandeis offered us first. Yale University also offered us, but MIT turned us down. So one of my professors said, I if I were you I would go to Yale, because everybody know Yale, and this is your Ph.D. Then after that you can do you know training and a Post Doc somewhere else. And BrandiceBrandeis is a good university, everyone knows that but --- but BrandiceBrandeis is a small Jewish university which is a high quality, but it’s different from Harvard or Yale. Harvard or Yale everybody knows, which I think now I’m going to agree with him, but at that time --- this is a real story, okay? Remember I told you we had to look for those rankings, right? I went to the biochemistry ranking, and I picked the top ten10. I still remember at that time the data. The top ten10 --- They picked ten10 universities of biochemistry in the top ten10. BrandiceBrandeis was number one#1. And let me finish that. The order maybe slightly changed, but I still remember BrandiceBrandeis, Harvard, Stanford, Wisconsin, and so on, and so on, and so on. MIT. MIT was probably five5 or six6 or something. And it was a mistake. They picked the top ten10, but alphabetical. BrandiceBrandeis --- Alphabetical BrandiceBrandeis is the first one. BrandiceBrandeis University biochemistry is very strong at that time. It’s very strong but it’s not like it should be the number one#1., Bbut they didn’t rank as 1, 2, 3, 4. They just said the top ten10 is here, but top 10 ten alphabetically is this. Then we say, H hey BrandiceBrandeis is number one #1. What else? Harvard, Stanford. BrandiceBrandeis to me is the same, anyway. And then this is the number one#1, and they accepted both of us. And so we accepted, and we are good citizens. Then after that, UC Berkeley came in. And UC Berkeley --- in Taiwan it’s very popular because our department had many --- we have many alumni there. We actually preferred UC Berkeley, but we did not know we could turn down an offer to go accept another offer. We did not even know it. We said, N no, we accepted already. So, you know, good citizens. That’s why I’m good citizen. I’m still good citizen. Very easy to deal with me. No negotiations. Otherwise, at that time time, based on reputation and based on the --- the --- that particular area’s reputation and also the --- the name of the university. UC Berkeley may be more popular. But anyway I’m not --- But we went to BrandiceBrandeis and it’s fine. We did pretty well and had a lot of interesting stories there. I kept culture kosher for half a year.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

You kept ?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Culture Kosher for half a year.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Oh really?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Not on purpose.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Why?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

The first year when --- over there we stayed in the dormitory. We came from Taiwan. We never seen snow snow, and that was Boston, very cold. We wore a lot of stuff inside because we didn’t know there’s heat in there. So the first thing, we go to class. First thing I have to go to men’s room, and take out everything and then go to class. Culture shock. Culture --- No this is all funny, and this is all real story.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Culture shock is a real thing.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Then we worked very hard. You can imagine, BrandiceBrandeis doesn’t have too many Asian students in 1978. That was before China opened, so only a few. We all knew each other --It’s either from Singapore, or from Malaysia, or from Taiwan, or from Hong Kong. Only a few. So at the time, when I learned English in --- in --- in --- in Taiwan, one of my English teachers was from Montana. He said if you go to United States you will represent your country. Don’t play stupid. So if you don’t know how to do things, just follow other people, okay? And those kind of things. He gave me some tips, which now I appreciate. So, we worked very hard. He said you know because you represent ---. I still tell those foreign students now for first year students. If they come from a different country. It doesn’t matter which country. I say work hard, because you not only represent yourself. Your represent your university and your country. Because if you do well, next time your --- a student from your university applies ________ (0:34:56.4)to be a student, GSBS [Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences] is more willing, which is true. You know after I graduated from BrandiceBrandeis, then my --- the same university, the same department, people at BrandiceBrandeis accepted them because I did well. And this is true. So we worked very hard. So we are on biochemistry panel. And BrandiceBrandeis --- Ever had a chance to visit BrandiceBrandeis? You probably didn’t. Okay. BrandiceBrandeis is a small Jewish university with about a total 3,000 students, and a very nice campus with a castle castle, and there’s a very nice cafeteria which is R-shaped. It’s got two entrances, and biochemistry was close with it. So, in order to save our time we don’t cook, we just eat there. So my wife and I always went to this tray. And then the tray here like I don’t remember, we were --- black color tray, and here’s a black color tray. We always eat here. And then I always feel people look at me kind of strangely, which I’m not surprised. That’s in 1978 before China is opened, okay? So at that time I expected that because in 1978, if you [the interviewer] go to Beijing, all the kids are going to ask you, American, American? They never seen an American, okay? So when I was a BrandiceBrandeis student, you know at lunchtime when people looked at me -- you know, students--- okay, I don’t have a problem with that. But after almost one semester, this one kid --- one guy undergraduate student comes to me and says, “Excuse me? Are you a Chinese Jewish?” Then I caught it. I still remember my --- my English teacher told me don’t play stupid stupid, okay? So you know this is Jewish university and he asked me if I was Chinese Jewish. How I’m going to answer. If --- I answer, yes, but I’m not but if I say no, do I offend him or something? So before I answered ________ answer the question but why are asking this question? “Oh, because you kept kosher every day.” [laughter] Black line is kosher line. Yellow line is common line. Then after that I realized. So next time, I go through the yellow line.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

The things you don’t know. It’s amazing.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

You know, if you talk to those people who ---not now, --- nowadays uh it’s electronic. It’s very convenient. You know communication is not so good. So for those people who come from different countries, everybody has a story. Everyone. Everyone has an interesting story and when you look --- heard it it’s so funny, but it happened.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yeah, and at the time it can be very stressful. It really can.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

We have time? Can I tell you another real story?

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Absolutely. Yes.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Okay. The first day I came to United States, I went to Los Angeles. M, my wife and I, and of course we --- we buy the tickets, we buy --- buy the cheapest ones. So that ticket is you know a red eye ticket. So I stopped by Los Angeles, but we did not travel a lot so we --- we stopped by Los Angeles, well in the morning. T, then my flight is at midnight. S so a whole day, more than ten10 hours. So what can we do? We didn’t know anything. We’re not going to hang around all day. And then in Los Angeles airport ---to me it’s very clean, nice air-conditioned airport. You know, I came from a very poor place, Taiwan. Although Taiwan is not poor anymore, but at that time. And, we didn’t have a lot of money. I didn’t go to the fancy restaurants. right? So I buy something very minimal to eat. Then my wife and I together --and then I was thirsty, so I see a bunch of people hanging around. I go there. I was looking for somewhere to push like a drink of water. I couldn’t see --- find it. And I don’t speak English well. A and also I don’t want to play stupid because the first time --- first day in American and my teacher told me, don’t play stupid. Okay because you play stupid not only yourself, your country. So I said okay fine. He asked me if you don’t know how to do it follow people. Follow people. It’s true. So that’s what I did. I followed people. So I see a guy walk over there, and water jumps up, and he took a drink. He was a white guy. I go there. And then I go there, because I thought he walk on this way. Then I was sitting here right? So I come on this way and think, hey, maybe I should go in wrong direction, so I go on this way. Water doesn’t jump up. So I start going over and watch. Then I start to imagine, okay. As you said, right now it’s a joke. A lot of times if you image imagine American is very advanced. What does it take? Everybody say you have to pay taxes in America, right? Maybe America is so advanced twhose people who pay taxes, there’s a code, and then the people who pay taxes get water. We never paid taxes. I don’t know. I’m just imagining. All this --- All of these crazy ideas. I’m a scientist. Is it possible or something else? And later I see another person, a black lady, coming, and water jump up again. There was one time I was thinking about water because America --- that’s in 1970 ---Martin Luther King, that happened in 1950 or something, right? So that’s just --- recent it’s not long ago so --- so we all heard those stories. So I thought maybe because I’m yellow so they don’t give me water, and I don’t pay taxes, or what? All kinds of reasons, right? But then comes the black lady, and water jumps up. Right? So at first I was thinking maybe discrimination, maybe because of my color, no water. But then when the black lady color --- come and water came out, and then I say, well that’s not the reason. Maybe because of tax tax, and that’s because America is so advanced. A and I sometime watched those uh science fiction movie and they code recognize eyes, or skin, or whatever, and now it’s happened, right? Oh. But first day I need water. Then you know what happened? In Taiwan those drinking water push [a button]--- here you use this [wave a hand]. And then walk over there is no body language. They just walk over there and water come up, but when I go there water doesn’t come up. Real story.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I appreciate it.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And I --- I --- I use this as a joke, but at that time you know the first day here. Very funny.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

It’s terribly stressful. I spent time living --- living abroad too and just the things you don’t know and it’s --- it’s tiring. You know it’s, figuring out, figuring out, figuring out.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

At that time maybe I’m not really --- I’m not really scared or something but I’m just kind of, this is a new country. What happened? What is this? Anyway.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

How long did it --- How long did it take you to kind of feel like you were getting your bearings and figuring things out?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Well, it was pretty fast, because you know my brother was in New York, so after that I actually flew to New York and then told him all these things. Oh, the other thing. When I went to New York, I took a taxi. My brother had said, hey just take a taxi here. So he already knew where to pick me up and I took taxi. Then after I took taxi I went --- I went to see my brother and said the taxi driver looked at me all the time. He said, Ooh, you did not give him tip. Because in Taiwan you don’t give tip. That guy probably realized this guy is a foreigner, doesn’t even speak English well , so he just looked at me and --- and he probably hated me, but he didn’t say anything. He didn’t give me a hard time but he’s looking at me, and not a very friendly eye. So my brother says, O oh, because you didn’t give him tip.

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Chapter 02: Experiencing Culture Shock in the United States

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