
Chapter 03: A High-Pressure Ph.D. Program and Research in Protein Biochemistry
Files
Loading...
Description
Dr. Hung explains the competitive and high-pressure atmosphere at Brandeis and explains the six rotations through laboratories required of first year graduate students. He describes his work isolating hormone regulation genes. He explains why it is important for scientists to understand how to perform all stages of an analysis or research process as they create new knowledge and comments on graduate education today.
Dr. Hung then talks about his mentor, Pieter Wensink, who was researching the new processes of cloning. He explains that Dr. Wensink’s lab was very small, friendly and supportive, and that Dr. Wesink and his wife, Dorothy, often hosted social events for the lab. He observes that he learned a lot about American culture as a result. He also explains that he has replicated this culture in his own laboratory. He also concludes that a laboratory is much like a family and explains how he acts on this idea in his own laboratory: “Once you are in my laboratory, you are my people and I take care of you.”
Identifier
HumgMC_01_20140220_C03
Publication Date
2-20-2014
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD, Oral History Interview, February 20, 2014
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - Educational Path; The Researcher; MD Anderson Culture; The Professional at Work; Leadership; Character, Values, Beliefs, Talents On Research and Researchers; Mentoring; Influences from People and Life Experiences; Personal Background; Professional Path; Understanding Cancer, the History of Science, Cancer Research; Discovery and Success
Transcript
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Now you’ll --- Now you know. So tell me about BrandiceBrandeis educationally. What did you discover? How did you fall into research?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
In the first year we --- just like our other school we had to do rotations, and these rotations --- our rotations were very tough. Here we do three rotations the first year. Over there we do six rotations. Very, very tough.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Wow. Yeah. Right? Advances. So tell me about your decision to leave Taiwan and do your Ph.D. in the US.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
I --- You know that’s a very easy answer, okay? Taiwan --- You want to be a scientist? You want to do science in Taiwan? Yes, I love Taiwan. I still love Taiwan. I to to Taiwan very often now because I am still on a lot of committees, but wait a minute. We don’t have lots of resources. We don’t have lots of good environments. Right after World War II --- Remember during World War II that --- you probably don’t remember --- but the B29 from Taiwan, okay? Taiwan was very poor after World War II. Taiwan was owned by --- was governed by Japan. It was considered Japanese. At that time it was very common for people in National Taiwan University in the top departments, many of them, if they wanted to be scientists they had to go abroad_______ (0:24:46.6). So it was common. This was an easy question. Why I should come to the United States? Because I wanted to be a scientist. and And you want to be a top scientist, then you better go to the best place. Like in Taiwan I went to NTU, National Taiwan University, but in after training at NTU, I came to United States. It’s still true right now, although right now we are more competitive. Now the whole world is coming up. But 20-30 years ago this was the place to do it. So then I …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
How did that happen? I mean di --- was --- did you make connections? You just tried? I mean what was the process?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Oh, yeah. At that time I studied for my Masters there because I --- I told you my undergraduate, I was not a top student. I knew I --- if I applied it was unlikely. When I was a Master student I stayed in the lab. I spent time. I produced a lot of data. We published quite a few papers, so from my Master thesis I published three or four papers. So it was very impressive to check the records. So then you --- then I applied for United States for --- I still applied to biochemistry programs, of course. Yeah and sI applied quite a few places, and then of course we had to go through those databases. A andnd at that time there was no --- no Google, no Yahoo, right? So you had to go through the American Institution of Education to do something. There’s a --- There’s --- From United States, there’s some institution in Taiwan, Taipei actually , then you can go there to borrow their library --- to the library to borrow --- to look in for the index of what university is the best, and in which field, and those kinds of databases. Now it’s very easy because you can go to a website, but at that time you had look one by one, page by page. That’s what I was looking for, which university was good in biochemistry. And then apply to them and --- and also looking for their criteria requirements. I had to pass TOEFL, GRE, and that kind of stuff.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Right. How did you choose BrandiceBrandeis?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Ahh go --- good question. I actually applied to MIT, BrandiceBrandeis, UC Berkeley, and Yale. MIT is the only one that rejected me. All the rest accepted me. And my wife and I were classmates, so both of us applied.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Oh, okay. So you were married before you came to the US?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Oh yeah, yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
And your wife’s name?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Kinglan Chen.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
K-i-m?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
K-i-n-g.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
K-i-n-j.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
This is another interesting story. Kinglan.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
K-i-n-j-l-a-n.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
K-i-n-g.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Oh, G.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
L-a-n.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
L-a-n.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
She should have spelled it J-i-n-g-l-a-n, because her Chinese name is Jinglan. But because in Taiwan Jing is King, it’s gold, so she put Kinglan. But when everybody --- she’s my classmate --- when everybody said Kinglan they thought she was me and I was her.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Oh, interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Male.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
King.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Right. Sure.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Ah anyway. So she --- she and I started Brandice Brandeis together. We were classmates. So my professor always mixed us up. Hung --- Hung --- Mien-Chie Hung
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
: is a she and then Kinglan --- and people still feel that way because it’s --- I mean King, right? That’s male. Right?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Does your --- Does your name mean something in Chinese?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Yes.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
What does it mean?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Mien --- I didn’t spell that very well, but Mien-Chie. Mien actually means --- it’s --- in Chinese characters it is the sun and the moon together. S soo in Chinese meaning --- so when I write the Chinese character, Mien it is the sun and the moon together. A and then the meaning, it means bright, right? And Chie in Chinese is two meanings, either strange or outstanding, so I pick outstanding. It’s an unusual one. Unusual could be strange right?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
In a good way.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
It could be outstanding.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
I always think strange is actually a plus.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
And my wife’s name was Jinglan. Jing was King was gold and lan is an orchid. It’s a flower. So meaning “golden flower.” You know all those Chinese names always have meanings, so golden flower. At the time, when we were in Taiwan, because of our spelling it’s based on some very limited type of a --- a--- a ---- dictionary. So I mean she picked up king and now even translated I will translate Jinglan. And also and even my name, I don’t spell this way, either. I spell it Ming because of Ming --very clearly, Ming Dynasty. But here it’s Mien. Actually my Chinese name is Ming-Chie. So I apologize. It’s too late. I cannot change it anyway.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
You can’t change it. Nice --- Nice stories though, and it’s always interesting to hear what’s behind those. So back to coming to Brandice Brandeis and why you chose Brandice Brandeis, since everyone else accepted you.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
That’s another interesting story. I have a lot of interesting stories if you want to talk. We may have to talk three times. Okay so --- so obviously I applied and then we hade a lot of professiornals who came from United States. My advisor was from --- graduated with a Ph.D. from University of San Francisco, and there’s another one from Illinois, and so on. So, I wanted to go to a university where I can do good science. UC Berkeley --- We have a lot of alumni who went to UC Berkeley, because California you know it’s closer. B, but UC Berkeley’s offer to both of us was a little bit late, and BrandiceBrandeis offered us first. Yale University also offered us, but MIT turned us down. So one of my professors said, I if I were you I would go to Yale, because everybody know Yale, and this is your Ph.D. Then after that you can do you know training and a Post Doc somewhere else. And BrandiceBrandeis is a good university, everyone knows that but --- but BrandiceBrandeis is a small Jewish university which is a high quality, but it’s different from Harvard or Yale. Harvard or Yale everybody knows, which I think now I’m going to agree with him, but at that time --- this is a real story, okay? Remember I told you we had to look for those rankings, right? I went to the biochemistry ranking, and I picked the top ten10. I still remember at that time the data. The top ten10 --- They picked ten10 universities of biochemistry in the top ten10. BrandiceBrandeis was number one#1. And let me finish that. The order maybe slightly changed, but I still remember BrandiceBrandeis, Harvard, Stanford, Wisconsin, and so on, and so on, and so on. MIT. MIT was probably five5 or six6 or something. And it was a mistake. They picked the top ten10, but alphabetical. BrandiceBrandeis --- Alphabetical BrandiceBrandeis is the first one. BrandiceBrandeis University biochemistry is very strong at that time. It’s very strong but it’s not like it should be the number one#1., Bbut they didn’t rank as 1, 2, 3, 4. They just said the top ten10 is here, but top 10 ten alphabetically is this. Then we say, H hey BrandiceBrandeis is number one #1. What else? Harvard, Stanford. BrandiceBrandeis to me is the same, anyway. And then this is the number one#1, and they accepted both of us. And so we accepted, and we are good citizens. Then after that, UC Berkeley came in. And UC Berkeley --- in Taiwan it’s very popular because our department had many --- we have many alumni there. We actually preferred UC Berkeley, but we did not know we could turn down an offer to go accept another offer. We did not even know it. We said, N no, we accepted already. So, you know, good citizens. That’s why I’m good citizen. I’m still good citizen. Very easy to deal with me. No negotiations. Otherwise, at that time time, based on reputation and based on the --- the --- that particular area’s reputation and also the --- the name of the university. UC Berkeley may be more popular. But anyway I’m not --- But we went to BrandiceBrandeis and it’s fine. We did pretty well and had a lot of interesting stories there. I kept culture kosher for half a year.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
You kept ?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Culture Kosher for half a year.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Oh really?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Not on purpose.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Why?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
The first year when --- over there we stayed in the dormitory. We came from Taiwan. We never seen snow snow, and that was Boston, very cold. We wore a lot of stuff inside because we didn’t know there’s heat in there. So the first thing, we go to class. First thing I have to go to men’s room, and take out everything and then go to class. Culture shock. Culture --- No this is all funny, and this is all real story.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Culture shock is a real thing.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Then we worked very hard. You can imagine, BrandiceBrandeis doesn’t have too many Asian students in 1978. That was before China opened, so only a few. We all knew each other --It’s either from Singapore, or from Malaysia, or from Taiwan, or from Hong Kong. Only a few. So at the time, when I learned English in --- in --- in --- in Taiwan, one of my English teachers was from Montana. He said if you go to United States you will represent your country. Don’t play stupid. So if you don’t know how to do things, just follow other people, okay? And those kind of things. He gave me some tips, which now I appreciate. So, we worked very hard. He said you know because you represent ---. I still tell those foreign students now for first year students. If they come from a different country. It doesn’t matter which country. I say work hard, because you not only represent yourself. Your represent your university and your country. Because if you do well, next time your --- a student from your university applies ________ (0:34:56.4)to be a student, GSBS [Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences] is more willing, which is true. You know after I graduated from BrandiceBrandeis, then my --- the same university, the same department, people at BrandiceBrandeis accepted them because I did well. And this is true. So we worked very hard. So we are on biochemistry panel. And BrandiceBrandeis --- Ever had a chance to visit BrandiceBrandeis? You probably didn’t. Okay. BrandiceBrandeis is a small Jewish university with about a total 3,000 students, and a very nice campus with a castle castle, and there’s a very nice cafeteria which is R-shaped. It’s got two entrances, and biochemistry was close with it. So, in order to save our time we don’t cook, we just eat there. So my wife and I always went to this tray. And then the tray here like I don’t remember, we were --- black color tray, and here’s a black color tray. We always eat here. And then I always feel people look at me kind of strangely, which I’m not surprised. That’s in 1978 before China is opened, okay? So at that time I expected that because in 1978, if you [the interviewer] go to Beijing, all the kids are going to ask you, American, American? They never seen an American, okay? So when I was a BrandiceBrandeis student, you know at lunchtime when people looked at me -- you know, students--- okay, I don’t have a problem with that. But after almost one semester, this one kid --- one guy undergraduate student comes to me and says, “Excuse me? Are you a Chinese Jewish?” Then I caught it. I still remember my --- my English teacher told me don’t play stupid stupid, okay? So you know this is Jewish university and he asked me if I was Chinese Jewish. How I’m going to answer. If --- I answer, yes, but I’m not but if I say no, do I offend him or something? So before I answered ________ answer the question but why are asking this question? “Oh, because you kept kosher every day.” [laughter] Black line is kosher line. Yellow line is common line. Then after that I realized. So next time, I go through the yellow line.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
The things you don’t know. It’s amazing.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
You know, if you talk to those people who ---not now, --- nowadays uh it’s electronic. It’s very convenient. You know communication is not so good. So for those people who come from different countries, everybody has a story. Everyone. Everyone has an interesting story and when you look --- heard it it’s so funny, but it happened.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Yeah, and at the time it can be very stressful. It really can.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
We have time? Can I tell you another real story?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Absolutely. Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Okay. The first day I came to United States, I went to Los Angeles. M, my wife and I, and of course we --- we buy the tickets, we buy --- buy the cheapest ones. So that ticket is you know a red eye ticket. So I stopped by Los Angeles, but we did not travel a lot so we --- we stopped by Los Angeles, well in the morning. T, then my flight is at midnight. S so a whole day, more than ten10 hours. So what can we do? We didn’t know anything. We’re not going to hang around all day. And then in Los Angeles airport ---to me it’s very clean, nice air-conditioned airport. You know, I came from a very poor place, Taiwan. Although Taiwan is not poor anymore, but at that time. And, we didn’t have a lot of money. I didn’t go to the fancy restaurants. right? So I buy something very minimal to eat. Then my wife and I together --and then I was thirsty, so I see a bunch of people hanging around. I go there. I was looking for somewhere to push like a drink of water. I couldn’t see --- find it. And I don’t speak English well. A and also I don’t want to play stupid because the first time --- first day in American and my teacher told me, don’t play stupid. Okay because you play stupid not only yourself, your country. So I said okay fine. He asked me if you don’t know how to do it follow people. Follow people. It’s true. So that’s what I did. I followed people. So I see a guy walk over there, and water jumps up, and he took a drink. He was a white guy. I go there. And then I go there, because I thought he walk on this way. Then I was sitting here right? So I come on this way and think, hey, maybe I should go in wrong direction, so I go on this way. Water doesn’t jump up. So I start going over and watch. Then I start to imagine, okay. As you said, right now it’s a joke. A lot of times if you image imagine American is very advanced. What does it take? Everybody say you have to pay taxes in America, right? Maybe America is so advanced twhose people who pay taxes, there’s a code, and then the people who pay taxes get water. We never paid taxes. I don’t know. I’m just imagining. All this --- All of these crazy ideas. I’m a scientist. Is it possible or something else? And later I see another person, a black lady, coming, and water jump up again. There was one time I was thinking about water because America --- that’s in 1970 ---Martin Luther King, that happened in 1950 or something, right? So that’s just --- recent it’s not long ago so --- so we all heard those stories. So I thought maybe because I’m yellow so they don’t give me water, and I don’t pay taxes, or what? All kinds of reasons, right? But then comes the black lady, and water jumps up. Right? So at first I was thinking maybe discrimination, maybe because of my color, no water. But then when the black lady color --- come and water came out, and then I say, well that’s not the reason. Maybe because of tax tax, and that’s because America is so advanced. A and I sometime watched those uh science fiction movie and they code recognize eyes, or skin, or whatever, and now it’s happened, right? Oh. But first day I need water. Then you know what happened? In Taiwan those drinking water push [a button]--- here you use this [wave a hand]. And then walk over there is no body language. They just walk over there and water come up, but when I go there water doesn’t come up. Real story.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I appreciate it.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
And I --- I --- I use this as a joke, but at that time you know the first day here. Very funny.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
It’s terribly stressful. I spent time living --- living abroad too and just the things you don’t know and it’s --- it’s tiring. You know it’s, figuring out, figuring out, figuring out.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
At that time maybe I’m not really --- I’m not really scared or something but I’m just kind of, this is a new country. What happened? What is this? Anyway.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
How long did it --- How long did it take you to kind of feel like you were getting your bearings and figuring things out?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Well, it was pretty fast, because you know my brother was in New York, so after that I actually flew to New York and then told him all these things. Oh, the other thing. When I went to New York, I took a taxi. My brother had said, hey just take a taxi here. So he already knew where to pick me up and I took taxi. Then after I took taxi I went --- I went to see my brother and said the taxi driver looked at me all the time. He said, Ooh, you did not give him tip. Because in Taiwan you don’t give tip. That guy probably realized this guy is a foreigner, doesn’t even speak English well , so he just looked at me and --- and he probably hated me, but he didn’t say anything. He didn’t give me a hard time but he’s looking at me, and not a very friendly eye. So my brother says, O oh, because you didn’t give him tip. Now tell me about that. I actually never heard about the rotations in a Ph.D. program.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
As a first year student, they don’t want you to pick an advisor. They want you exposed to different areas.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
And in our grad school you --- it’s reasonable, three areas, three. So in each one you spend about three months. You spend three months in this lab, another three months in this lab, and then there are all different labs. So you kind of --- if you are very mature, you know what you want to do, but if you are not mature, you’re a first year student, you may just kind of know. And then after that, it helps you to choose the lab which suit --- which is most suitable for you. And there is no best lab. It’s just like a both have to choose.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
It’s a fit. Right. And they use the same system now in the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences, don’t they?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
GSBS. That’s what I’m saying. Ours is just three rotations. but But at BrandiceBrandeis, we had six rotations in the first year. So six rotations, meaning six weeks per rotation, and every rotation we had to write a report, and every rotation we had to give a talk. It was tremendous pressure. BrandiceBrandeis in the biochemistry department, the first year is very, very tough. So we finished six rotations. And remember I was studying snake venom protein, and I was interested in protein chemistry, and that department is very strong in protein chemistry. That’s why I went over there. But at that time, molecular biologists started --- cloning had just started, and my Ph.D. mentor, Pieter WensinkPeter Winsink, he just came from Stanford and he’s one of the pioneer people who developed cloning strategy, so he became very hot among our students. And I was not aware of that ______ (0:44:54.9). I was still thinking about protein chemistry, and protein chemistry is a little bit of a more mature field. I’m not saying the out of their fields, a more mature fields. So, end up I went to his lab for the last rotation. S, sixth rotation, and every student wanted to stay in that lab. And I was the last one to go on the rotation, but I worked very hard and he knew my track record. I had multiple publications, so he knew where I stood on that. But when I was in the lab, you know I’d never done any molecular biology and cloning. I had very good background in protein chemistry and I had multiple publications, so I ended up not staying in protein lab --- protein chemistry. I stayed in molecular biology because --- and I think I made the right choice. Before I started to move into molecular biology --in a new area-- I picked up --- learned how to clone the gene and that kind of stuff. And that’s actually affected my long-term career.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Why did you start moving in that direction? I mean what --- what did you find so appealing about it?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Originally I was interested in micromolecular protein enzymes which --- like the snake venom which is very interesting. but But molecular biology that was --cloning just came out, and cloning --- Now --- it’s the old term now. But at that time, cloning meant you make identical stuff. In bacteria you can do that. right? You can clone a gene from bacteria. At that time, not yet. We knew we could clone gene from bacteria ,and our lab is starting to --drosophila, right? Fruit fly, right? Okay, now you clone a gene from a fly. Wow. A gene! Then, you can with your hands handle a gene. It’s not a prot --- Proteins are interesting, too. B but genes, at that time, are more modern and also give people an impression that it’s more powerful, because you cloned it. You can replicate.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
What possibilities did you see in that replication? You know what did --- what was being imagined and what did you imagine you could do?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
For example, if I isolate a protein from snake venom, it takes a lot of snake venom to purify it. Then if I purify 1 mg, that’s all I have. But cloning is different. You clone a gene from bacteria or from a fly. Once I have the clone in the plasma, I can make it. I can make it 1 mg today. I can make it another mg today --- tomorrow. It’s much more powerful. You can just imagine why. Your study material is unlimited, right? That’s a big difference. But proteins, you use it up, you’re done. You’re done. And you had to purify it again, and purifying may take you three months or something. But cloning --a, and we can in the bacterial culture and make it --- and make it, you know, fly genes in the bacteria and purify. And at that time it was called P1, P2, P3. It’s still under restriction, but now it’s much easier. At that time human gene had not been cloned yet, but everybody imaginedg genes can be --- human genes can be cloned and now it’s a …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
It’s like every day. Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Right? Right. And then --- And then we had to determine the sequencing and so on, and so on. So my Ph.D. thesis in --- in that lab actually I studied egg yolk protein gene.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
I’m sorry. What is the name?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Egg yolk pro --- yolk protein --- yolk --- egg yolk. Yolk protein gene.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Oh egg yolk, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Yolk protein gene. Because in --- when we studied fly not --- not chicken egg. It --- And then …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
And that was a drosophila egg?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
A drosophila. And because the --- that’s a --- that egg yolk protein gene was regulated by --- by --- female hormone, like estrogen but in drosophila I don’t call estrogen it’s called ecdysone. . It’s equivalent.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Oh okay. Gotcha.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
So we studied hormone regulation gene, and so we had to determine how to clone the gene. We had to determine the sequence of the egg yolk protein. I was the one who actually determined the fly egg yolk protein sequence.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Really?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
So for that time you know not too many genes had been cloned. Not too many genes had been sequenced. So when I finished that egg yolk protein gene sequence --and about 5,000 base pair, I spent multiple years to deter --- because at that time-- 1976 is the first time those two people actually received a Nobel prize. One is [Walter] a ______ Gilbert(0:49:16.2) in Harvard. The other is [Frederick] Sanger (0:49:17.3) in England --- in Britain. They developed technology to be able to determine a DNA sequence. Remember protein sequences? Protein was done earlier. I told you about primary sequences, but the DNA sequence at that time was very difficult. But 1976 was the first time they developed those techniques. Then my Ph.D. thesis --so I actually determined sequencing. I used the _____ sequence and determined 5,000 base pair from the egg yolk protein gene. I remember when I finished, that, they started to say, hey, all this data should be stored so it can be shared with everybody. I believe when I finished --at that time, the [number of] continuous 5,000 base pair sequences available in the world was less than ten10. I know it’s a single digit. I don’t remember if it was eight8 or nine9 or something, but it was a single digit. The first one was a bacteria plasmin. It’s 4000 base pairs. It’s called PVR3322 and that back to the old days. And at the time when I finished that, I worked hard you know, I collected and then sequenced it. I redid it one by one. Nowadays when I talk to students, and now with the sequencing of the 5000 base pair, it’s less than 0.0000001. The human genome sequence is three times 109 base pair, and I spent multiple years on 5,000 base pair. That was of course the old days. But now everything is by ---_______ (0:50:47.8), by robot.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Well what’s happening now couldn’t have been possible without the kind of work that was being done then so…
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
So I sometimes say --- I say it’s very frustrating when people talk about sequencing. My students –oh, anything they want to sequence. Nobody to does sequencing now. They just send it to the core facility, then everything comes out.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Do you feel that having to go through that laborious process gave you certain insights or advantages intellectually that students nowadays don’t have?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Yes. Because that --- those things from step by step --- even when we do sequencing, the equipment, but here is all _______ robot right? If we wanted to sequence, that equipment --we’d have to design it ourselves. Not only design the equipment, but the gel, right? The glass plate --- We put a glass plate so we can run material --- images. And usually in the lab you can see that tear, a mini-tear and we have a tear very small and very easy to handle. A and at that time, for us to see the resolution, the gel I’m running, I’m not kidding, 90 cm. Very heavy. Luckily I can handle it.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD
Well, I remember the electrophoresis plates. I mean they were huge.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD
Yes. Yeah, yeah. And then so huge, and then sometimes because they were so huge, going around the gel the temperature is not even. They may crack. So, I still remember, we had to put all those temperature controls in, and if the temperature was too hot I had to turn it off, so that they can cool down, because otherwise if they are too hot they will break the glass plate. And if it break, it’s a headache. The whole day disappears. B because then I have to clean, then I have to remake another chair 90 cm. Okay those are --- how do you say that? Those are very laborious. However, at that time, that’s the only way you could do it. But when people start to do that, and learn that, and then start to “hey this is too much labor. Let’s think about it and most modern way.” Then they have multiple, multiple, multiple generations of sequencing and methods and now today, you don’t even worry about it. You just pay $1 and --done. You’re done. And that’s how technology --- ______ (0:52:58.9). Therefore, that gave me a concept. Now if I develop an anticancer drug --at the time, when I was developing anticancer …. meaning this drug didn’t exist but now we are developing one, it could be very expensive, but I don’t care. I care, but that should not be our concern, because if --- what we should be concerned about is, does it work or not? If it works, it’s very expensive, right? In the future, it will be very cheap. Just like sequencing. I have personally seen it. I spent five years with my friend, working day and night on the 5,000 base pair and now it’s 0.000001 set. In 30 years. Now if today I developed anticancer drug, if somebody said, ah, too expensive, nobody can use --, no. B because you are dealing with a disease --no cure. Now if you said, this works. This magic pill works
Recommended Citation
Hung, Mien-Chie PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 03: A High-Pressure Ph.D. Program and Research in Protein Biochemistry" (2014). Interview Chapters. 1155.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1155
Conditions Governing Access
Open
