Chapter 06: Recruited to Bring Cutting-Edge Oncogene Research to MD Anderson

Chapter 06: Recruited to Bring Cutting-Edge Oncogene Research to MD Anderson

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Dr. Hung explains that Dr. Garth Nicholson recruited him to MD Anderson because of his focus on tumors.

Dr. Hung jokingly tells about all of the colleagues how said, “Don’t go to Houston.” He tells a joke from a scientist’s perspective that compares China’s long history with the US’s very brief one. This joke, Dr. Hung explains, tells why Houston’s supposed lack of history and culture did not matter to him.

Dr. Hung explains that, when he was recruited, his work was considered ‘very modern and cutting-edge” because of his focus on oncogenes and cloning.

Identifier

HumgMC_02_20140307_C06

Publication Date

3-7-2014

City

Houston, Texas

Topics Covered

The Interview Subject's Story - Joining MD Anderson/Coming to Texas; The Researcher; Funny Stories; Joining MD Anderson; Character, Values, Beliefs, Talents; Personal background MD Anderson History; Understanding Cancer, the History of Science, Cancer Research; On Texas and Texans

Transcript

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Molecular and Cellular.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

… and Cellular Biology.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Oncology.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Oncology. [Department of Molecular and Cellular Oncology] Talking to the Chairman of that Department, Dr. Mien-Chie Hung. This is our second session. So, thanks very much. It was great fun to talk to you the last time and I’m looking forward to our conversation today.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Yeah.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

So, we ended last time by you --- you talked about your work on the HER2/neu oncogene and we also got up to the point when you had found out about the position at MD Anderson and you were excited about channeling your expertise in your area into this new area of oOncology. So before we get to talking about --- more about your research program when you got here, tell me your impressions of MD Anderson when you arrived.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Okay. So --- when I after post-doc training at MIT and then looking for job, I do have a few other offer from other place. I chose MD Anderson. The major reason is because MD Anderson is --- the reputation of MD Anderson in cancer. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:01:35.0] And I did --- I did at that time since I --- I was involved in the ___ cloning of an important oncogene. So I do feel that cancer --- I --- ever since when I was little, I been dreaming about medical research. If you remember, I mentioned last time my Master’s thesis in Taiwan studied the snake venom, … Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:01:54.0] … because that particular program in Taiwan at that time, nobody --t, you know, the program --- the program was, you --- you know, it’s not really a medical school so --- and also, snake venom, you know, Taiwan is a local issue ___ 2:03…

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

____ , right.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

… but now I have opportunity to work on cancer. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: Especially, I love cloning oncogene. At that time, I already committed that I wanted to stay in the cancer field. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: And so that was the major reason I choose MD Anderson … Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: … because I do feel I’m a basic scientist, and I’m a molecular biologist, cell biology and I clone a gene, I can do all those stuff. But in reality, based on my clinical friends’ comments, is I don’t know cancer. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: I never see patients, you know… Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: … treats patients, so that’s true. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: But we come from understanding cancer from animal models, from cellular models, from molecular models. But in reality, you had to go to cancer center. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: And to really collaborate with clinicians and start with the cancer research. And that’s why --- the major reason I chose MD Anderson.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Now, were you looking at other cancer centers at the time?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

At that time, I was --- when I looking for job, is more like at university.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Okay.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

University faculty position. And many of them are more --- primarily molecular cell biology and, of course, many basic science department --molecular cell people doing cancer, too. But at that time, MD Anderson, this particular department was led by Garth Nicolson. H …. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:03:18.0] … he built up this Department of Tumor Biology, which is a basic science but also focused on tumor, and that’s what I’m interested in. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:03:37.7] It’s different from many other places. When I ____ 0:03:30, it’s Department of Molecular --- Molecular Biology or Department of Microbiology. It’s nothing wrong with that, which is good, which is --- but my heart is in cancer. So Department of Tumor Biology is perfect for me. And plus, I like to know the clinical input. A annd then MD Anderson would be almost the ideal place that I can think about. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:03:50.9] Of course, before I came here, and just very frank with you, that my colleague --- post-doc colleague in MIT – it is a joke, if you want to put in or not, it’s your call. They are ___ say, Mien-Chie, you don’t want to go to Houston. I say, W why? T, they say, Ttoo hot.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yes.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And I say, I come from Taiwan. I never see snow before I come to Boston.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

(Laughter)

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And weather in Houston is the same in Taiwan. So that doesn’t exist. Second day, my friend come back, say, Mien-Chie, you’re my friend; I really ____ 0:4:21, don’t go there. I said, Wwhy? He said, T too hot. It’s not a problem. He said, T there is no culture there. Okay, many people grew up in northeast, you know that …

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yeah, yeah.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

… Houston no culture. So, you know, my answer --- and we still make it a joke. I --- I say, I’m Chinese. Chinese have 5,000 year of birthday ___ 0:04:40 --- 5,000 years of history. And United States, at that time had just passed 200 years or so. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0 :04:47.0] AAnd we all scientists. And scientists pay attention to the number. Five thousand plus/minus 200. We did an experiment error.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

(Laughter)

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

So, I’m sorry. To me, there is no culture in United States. Boston and Alaska is the same. Of course, we joke. We still joke at that. When we see each other, we joke at that. So then, I said, Ddon’t --- don’t try to convince me not to go. I’m going there.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

(Laughter)

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Then the third day, come back, say, Ookay, now we going back there. So, you’re my friend. So next time when you come, you have to drive a Cadillac with two horns and with the, you know, hat and with the boots.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Right.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And we still make that joke.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

It’s a good one.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Five thousand plus/minus 200 …

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Plus/minus 200 (laughter).

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

So, Alaska and Boston is the same to me.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

(Laughter)

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

So, it’s a joke. It’s a joke.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

(Laughter) No, and it’s --- but it’s true. And you’re --- and you’re right. I mean, even today --- I mean, up north, people think --- because when I was moving down here, the idea is, well, it’s all like rodeos and ____ 05:42 …

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

…. like you have no brains, you know. (Laughter). So, there really is prejudice …

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

It is…

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

… or lack of information.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And yeah. And of course, nowadays is different because now with --- with all these E-stuff, the --- the --- go to --- everything go to website to see. And all the communication become much faster --- much easier. But you know, remember I told you why I chose to Brandeis at that time, b … Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:06:04.1] …. Beecause of the communication.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Right.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Now, that wouldn’t happen today, right? But anyway, so --- so --- that’s --- in reality, that’s, you know, things have changed. And so, indeed that happened. And then at this mo --- and now, especially for foreigner, when come from different country, frankly speaking, you --- you don’t have that kind of feeling. But for people who grew up in, you know, northeast and grew up in ___ 0:06:24 family, they might have doubt, I mean I understand that. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:06:27.1] I understand. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:06:30.4] Just like in Taiwan, even that town is so small. People grow up in Taipei City and compared to some rural areas, of course they ….

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Right.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

… ____. It’s nothing right or wrong. It’s just like that’s the way it is.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

That’s just --- right, it’s just the misperceptions people have.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

And I’ll just sha --- sha --- share with you the --- all this real happen, things, and I make it as a joke. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: ___

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:06:48.0] And that joke, we still checking to each other. When all those friends get together, we still checking.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

It’s really --- it’s a funny joke. (Laughter) It really is a funny joke. Now, tell me, who was it that you spoke to the most when you were arranging to come here? Who recruited you?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Ah, my Department Chair at that time was Garth Nicolson, G-A-R-T-H N-I-C-O-L-S-O-N. He is actually one of the --- he is a very well-known scientist that ever --- ever since he was very young, that he convey a so-called mosaic model. And his model was actually in the general biochemistry textbook. I knew his name when I was a student.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Wow.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

So he was Department Chair of the –in this office_______ (0:07:28.9). And then after that, Stu ___Steve Tomasovic [oral history interview] took it over. And then …. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Okay

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:07:33.4] _______ office So he recruited me. S so I came here, and the department is not huge, maybe 10 faculty or so, but all focused on cancer, different areas. And at that time, I was considered as a more modern --- it’s out of date now, but … Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Hmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:07:49.3] … at that time, I was modern because oncogene was new, … Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Hmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:07:52.1] … and then molecular biology was new ….

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Right.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

… so I was kind of modern molecular oncogene person, and that was in mid 1980s, right? And the first human oncogene was cloned in 1982. So oncogene was hot. So at that time, I came here. I think I made a right choice because this the place that, you know, has a lot of the passion in cancer, and I as a very naïve junior faculty whose ex --- you know, expertise was in molecular biology cloning oncogene, but don’t really know cancer, and never really see how --- how patient been treated and so on. So I think I come to the right place and to go to the real world and then --, you know, passing now 27 years now--, and I do feel that I make the right choice. And I enjoy it.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Mhmm. Now, obviously when you presented your credentials to the department, they were well aware that you really did not have experience working in a clinical situation or with clinicians …

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

No.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

… so how, I mean, how were they seeing you at the time? What did they expect you to bring to the department?

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

Okay, that’s a little bit different. This department, there’s no MD. …

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yeah.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

This is the basic science department.

T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Yeah.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

So actually, we’re the same. It --- it’s different from clinical department. They may view I don’t have a clinical outcome. So this department, they will probably do not ask the question you ask. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:09:13.2] Because that’s what they are looking for. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:09:15.9] And, for me to come here, there’s certain issue they welcome because at that time, oncogene is very new, and not too many people clone oncogene. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:09:26.8] Now, the entire human genome is done, you know, whatever gene is already known. At that time, it’s very rare. So, when I came here, I was very --- very, very welcome. B Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:09:35.8] Because that’s a new area in cancer research. And then I happen to hit something very heavy heavy … Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:09:40.2] … anand it come from a --- a --- pedigree who is, you know, good pedigree. Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD: Mhmm.

Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:

: [0:09:44.8] . And so, I was being treated very well and being very welcome.

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Chapter 06: Recruited to Bring Cutting-Edge Oncogene Research to MD Anderson

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