
Chapter 15: Vice President of Basic Research; The Institute for Basic Science
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Description
Dr. Hung begins this chapter explaining how he was offered the position of Vice President of Basic Research and accepted to have more impact at MD Anderson. He explains his roles, working with Dr. Robert Bast [Oral History Interview] and Provost Raymond DuBois on virtually every basic science activity. Dr. Hung explains their recruiting philosophy: “We need to hire people that are better than you and better than me!”
Dr. Hung next explains that the new president, Dr. Ronald DePinho, wanted a great deal of recruitment and Dr. Hung was involved in those activities. He shares impressions of Dr. DePinho and explains the positive points of Dr. DePinho’s Moon Shots program.
Dr. Hung next talks about the Institute for Basic Science, created to raise funds for basic science research, an area that traditionally doesn’t do much fundraising. He explains the administrative structure and changes and talks about the Institute’s impact.
Dr. Hung summarizes the Institute’s fundraising accomplishments and goals.
Identifier
HumgMC_03_20140421_C15
Publication Date
4-21-2014
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - The Administrator; The Administrator; MD Anderson History; Institutional Mission and Values; Professional Practice; The Professional at Work; Character, Values, Beliefs, Talents; MD Anderson Culture; Leadership; Portraits; The Institution and Finances; Philanthropy, Fundraising, Giving to MD Anderson
Transcript
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
What about your appointment to Vice President for Basic Research in 2010? Tell me how that came about.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Oh yeah. That --- that was --- at that time, I actually was having, say, a long debate with myself. It was kind about an offer by an institution to build a cancer center ____ 09:38. It was a big chunk of money like a 100 million behind that. So --- I --- that was very attractive leadership for me. But of course, that’s different. That cancer center --- it’s a ___ 9:51 cancer center but I --- I had to call other people. At that time, both John Mendelsohn and Ray Dubois --- John actually asked me to go his house, saying, we don’t want you leave but you must have a reason then, you know. I said, I’m not looking for job, people just come to me. And then he said, you want to tell me about the work? What you would like to do to have more impact? So I ---I debated. I thought, if I ---- This institution, this a great institution. It is not easy to leave this institution. But at this institution, we have discussed that, there’s only so many thing you can do here. Of course, when you go to another institution to have a leadership position, that’s a different kind of --- how you say that --- no, you know, that’s different kind of legacy, okay? So you have to think a different way. But John actually convinced me that, why not tell me you what you want to do and then we decide institution. Compare institutions. At that time, we had a Vice President of Translation Research, there’s a vice president of clinical research. It’s a ___ booster. So, we are thinking, why not? Let’s create a Vice President of Basic Research in fact. At that time, I was very ______ . Do I want to spend more on the administration side or on the faculty research side? And part of the reason I didn’t take that leadership position, is also --- if I took that leadership position in the cancer center ____ , I would probably have to be the majority in administration. And so I thought, it’s --- there’s no right or wrong, it’s just debating. So I --- I still want enjoy some in research and education, so why not stay in the institution as a Vice President, Basic Research? So I can help the Provost. At that time, when the Ray DuBois was Provost, he was overwhelmed. Now, his position has enough. But Provost and two Vice Provosts, by that time, only one person. And --- and John also told me that Ray needed help, too. So then, they created this position and I stayed --- that’s why I’m still Department Chair because I --- at that time, choose to still run the labs to do research. But I can spend extra time to help institution to share my experience and to help my senior, my boss. So then, that work out really well. So a lot of my administration at that time and even now, too, is involved in the promotion of, you know, research excellence. For example, when we have staff recruitment … Staff recruit, you know, staff recruit… Outside, we give a pitch on money. All those things, we have to put a right package, right --- working with our, you know, administration office, design the portion, I have input on that. So I have been involved in a lot of recruitment, even at a time when Ron came here and when Ray was still here. And now, of course, there’s some of the administration work when Ethan [Dmitrovsky (oral history interview)] came in and having time with some of the major work that they were doing. So I kind of more --- had more time to do research, actually I enjoy, too. So I still do some administration work, in particular for those for major recruitment and then some of the --- when Helen need help on, you know, when she’s overloaded. So whenever she needs help with the research side, I help her to do it. But otherwise, right now, I probably more --- spend less time in the administration work but more in running the department … … and, you know, back to as a Department Chair. But before Ray left, I had more administration work. But still, even at that time, I still want to maintain my faculty position. I --- I more ---- that’s why my office. At the time when they move over there, they want me to move office there.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I don’t have office there.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
: Because I want to stay on this side. So I go there to help. So at that --- that actually worked out very well.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
What impact did you feel you had under Ray DuBois? And what do…
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Actually, at that time, I kind of felt good because Ray, before Ron come in, I worked with Ray very closely. Virtually every basic science activity, I’m involved. You know, the department, the evaluation and then --- so, I know kind of which department doing well and not doing well. I ____. A lot of stuff was kind of Helen’s doing, I know. And --- and then I have input, and then if Ray could not do it, you know, I helped him to do it. So I don’t really have real authority on --- in a lot of resource or things like that. But I’m involved in the discussion and involved in the policy decision and help the institution to promote basic science. And then…
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Can I --- can I ask you before we move on, I’m just curious. What --- what are some of the big --- because, you --- you know, part of the mission of the --- this project, interview project, is to kind of get a sense of the institution’s evolution. So, what are some of the conversations or decisions you were involved with Ray Dubois that you felt were kind of landmarks for the institution?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
No, I remember the time when I was appointed, he and I were talking about it. Because one thing was very interesting that we should only recruit those who are better than us.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
What?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I said, better than me or better than you? That’s what we need to recruit. And we started to use that concept to recruit good people. And, it’s sometimes difficult to say who’s better, but just concept-wise, we wanted to recruit. We didn’t want to just recruit mediocre people. We didn’t need --- we had enough people. We should --- I remember we sometime joked and said we should only recruit people who are better than you and better than me. And then when Ron came in the first year, we --- three of us actually all get together …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
And …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… because Ron has a lot of ….
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
You’re talking about Ron --- Ronald DePinho?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Remember when he came, and Ray DuBois overlapped one year. That year, we have --- Ron want to have a lot of recruitment. Major recruitment. At that time, three of us actually meet every two weeks ….
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… so I was involved in --- all the major recruitment. I don’t do that anymore because now we have, you know, after Ray step down, we have a new Provost and a new Vice Provost, and the substructure changed. So I --- I --- as I have mentioned, I come back to more in the Department Chair side, although I still do --- help Helen to do a lot of stuff. But more like on the recruitment. But that time, I’m involved virtually every day.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So, what is Dr. DePinho’s philosophy about basic sciences and its role here?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Oh, she … No. Ron, he --- he --- he’s by himself. He’s a clinician but he can by himself, a very, very strong scientist. So when he came, actually, he brought another kind of revolution to a certain degree, that is, the high impact publication. He himself is a very strong role model. Role model is important. John Mendelsohn give us a different kind of role model. John Mendelsohn, he’s a clinician. He’s a good coordinator, gets things together and moves into clinical trial, develops new drugs, different clinical trials. But Ron DePinho himself, his laboratories are very strong as basic --- basic scientist, as a scientist per se. They publish --- his lab publish always in the top journals, Nature, Science, Cell, and then better than all faculty here. So, he serves as role model and so he --- when he came, he was starting to raise the bar. Which I think is important because MD Anderson is clinically very, very strong. Our science, it has become much, much better than before. If in the, you know, last two decades, I can see every five years, we are jumping up, right? But when Ron came in, certainly he had that capacity and his vision, he wanted to make it even bigger. So on the basic scientist side, that I think that he does give us a very high standard and which _____ for a science institution. So especially the focus on cancer science. We want to bring cancer science to the top, okay? And also because of his concept, for the Moon Shot concept for which he used the name “the Moon Shot” because to certain degree to say if somebody can do it, MD Anderson can do it. MD Anderson should be the right place to really say, we have so much resources and that’s all focus --- and let’s just not --- let’s organize that. Just not have everybody doing your own onsite research. Let’s organize that and then aiming say, in one decade, I would like to significantly reduce cancer death rates or cancer survivor rates and so that we have a real impact. So when he started with that concept, the Moon Shot concept --- of course, not everybody-- but I think the majority of people, many people include --- including myself, started thinking toward on that line. And then, indeed, we have --- as I mentioned, we have so much knowledge there. I want to discover another new drug. I can always help patients. It’s just the patient. Used to be I always want to develop new drug --- develop new drug, but it’s okay but you don’t have to.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Can be even faster...
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
using an existing drug. Because one drug here takes 20 years.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
It is a mindset shift.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Very interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then, he used those terms like a low-hanging fruit, right? It’s true. You know, low-hanging fruit, why do you to climb up, you know, to the top to get the fruit. Yeah, so I think --- so I think the institution now is in a new transition and I understand that, you know, hope that we understand, not you…
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Let me turn off the recorder. [The recorder is paused.]
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay, so we’re recording again. And we’ve been off record for about eight minutes. It is twenty-eight minutes after eleven.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So, the issue of Basic Science following, that one is more like rotated. So the …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So this is the Institute for Basic Science.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah. Okay. So let me give the background. So this is --originally when John Mendelsohn, before he retired-- he actually has a very long-term --- only half a year. Once a month, we --- all the leaders joined together to discuss the future of MD Anderson. So there’s some strategical planning. And in the strategic plan, we created several in the basic science portion --several centers. And I was one of the center directors, for the Center for Biology pathway --- and there are several centers there. And among these several centers, for fundraising purposes, it is better to put all these basic science centers into an Institute of Basic Science. Just like ____ 0:00:59 …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then on South Campus, there are several institutes. They have been very successful at fundraising. Traditionally, basic sciences don’t really have much fundraising. Then there were a lot of times we --- I think it’s six or seven centers joined together and called --- it’s the Institute of Basic Science. And that Institute of Basic Science that --- then among all these center directors, we discussed, we just kind of --at the very beginning, I think Sharon Tinn? [phonetic] 0:01:24.7 was the first [Institute] director. And I believe it was for one year. And after that, we said, well, why not just vote and then take turns?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, it was established in 2008, correct?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And I think the first director was Sharon Tinn (0:01:41.0), and then I was the second director. But after I was the second director, I also happened to be Vice President of Basic Research. And also it happened that the presidency was open for search, all closed that time.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So at that time, Ray [DuBois] told me, why not --- why not just stay there? First --- I’m Vice President of Basic Research, right? Second, we’re going to change leadership soon. So --- we didn’t want a change so Ray told me, why not stay there for a --- for a period of time? I think I stayed there for --- in the Institute of Basic Science directorship for quite a few years.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, it was --- I have until 2013. Does that make sense?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
That’s four --- yeah, probably it was four, five years.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Maybe not that long --- maybe, so from 2009 to ----. Anyway, so four, five years. So I served in that capacity and tried to coordinate all these multiple center together.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, the centers, I’m not sure if I’ve got them all. There is Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Immunology, Genetics, Carcinogenesis, Cancer Biology, and Molecular and Cellular Oncology.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah. All these department all have a center.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay, okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
All have center.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So now --- I ac --- actually, I didn’t realize that these institutes were really fundraising organs.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
No, this is --- to a certain degree, yes. But this institute is a virtual institute.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
It’s virtual, it’s not like that there’s a building there. It’s all the center … but the center --- the institution gave the center a different kind of a research funding to help them to --- to promote science.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And --- and that’s why, you know, remember when I told you that when I served as a basic research vice president, my role was to promote basic science. So that’s part of the activity.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Although this institution is basic science historically, it’s come from there. And therefore, after Ray left – I think it was last year – we did --- we decided to go back to the old system. So we voted again. So now, Gigi is the Institute of Basic Science Chair.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I --- I’m sorry, her …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Gigi Lozano.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, Lozano.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
___. And then we decided --- at that time originally, it was a one-year term, but now it’s a two-year term. So --- so he will be off next year. And then next year, we’re going to --- all the centers are going to vote and --- who can serve with that. So, the Institute of Basic Science directorship is more like --- to help all these centers work together and promote basic science interaction. And now, with Helen here --because the administration brought a new structure. This pretty much all under Helen now. Because Helen is the Vice Provost of Sciences so all the are basic sciences under her, you know. So institution does not really have a division of basic science. So Helen is more like --- now is the head of the division of ____ . We didn’t form that structure, but is more like that now. So all the basic science department chairs report to Helen. And each of the basic sciences is slightly different. It’s all in the center which pretty much --- and called by a specific department. And the center, that’s for fundraising purposes. And then --- with the center director, we kind of get together, communicate and then vote to have somebody to be the leader and communicate with the upper level.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
And what --- what effects have you seen from that? I mean, how has --- you know, what’s the evidence that you have, in the sense that this communication is really helping …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I think because many basic science departments here --- I don’t know whether it’s appropriate word to say that. Because for example, I told you my department --- I encourage faculty to commit to a disease. But some basic science departments are still very, very basic. They --- their interaction with the clinical departments is limited. Although they are --- becoming more and more interactive now. So, this Institute of Basic Science is more like it, too. Among basic scientists, they join together to see whether basic scientists should also work together to enhance science.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Because otherwise, our basic science departments still don’t really have a --- they are different from clinical divisions. A clinical division is Surgery. Breast Medical --- the --- Cancer Medicine, they are under that division, all those different departments work together. But basic sciences are pretty much on their own. It used to be the Basic Science Chair just reported to the Provost directly. But in the clinical division, the department chairs report to the division head, the division head reports to the Provost. So, the basic science chair reports to the Provost directly. So the Institute of Basic Science is more like a try to at the ---- the historic reason is for the Institute is fundraising. But then, ____ (0:6:25.1) because all these center directors get to together, they discuss how can we interact with each other. So we have actually run a few joint retreats to enhance interaction and cooperative.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
What is that? How is that ….
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Joint retreat. Because …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… these are all different centers, all from different departments. So they are different --- kind of like very different, right? So we say, okay, how about once a year we join together and we have a theme. And then, have a joint retreat. So, each center has a couple of people representing the center to present what kind of science they are doing. Because all of the basic sciences come from different expertise. Like, my center of my department is more like molecular cell biology --- biology part-way. And metastasis from Josh Fidler --that metastasis --- _____ genetic ____ . So --- so people with different kinds of expertise join together to discuss to enhance cooperation. And then in a way, it’s similar to how we try to interact with a clinical department. Clinical departments --- among clinical departments, they have a different disease sites. But let’s say with each center, each department, we also interact with the clinical department. But inside of basic science department, we also have different expertise – biochemistry …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… genetics, molecular cell biology, right? With all different expertise. But, Institute of Basic Science is to coordinate this so that we can work together to enhance collaboration, interaction, too. So, the Institute of Basic Science --this kind of concept is pretty common in many other regular campuses. But here, we originally were more emphasized on basic science interaction with clinical departments. The Institute of basic science was also more to help all the basic science centers and departments also interact with each.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
What’s been the impact on fundraising? And why traditionally has it been difficult to do --- or not --- or why has it not been traditional to do fundraising for the basic sciences?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah, because we have a very strong Development Office here. And obviously, the upper level has, you know, some direction they want to go in, for example, fund raising for the Moon Shots.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then, at the time when John Mendelsohn was here, he was fundraising for South Campus and all those different institutes. So --- so, those are big projects. Of course, you know, every faculty sometimes have their individual connections and they also can do individual fundraising but those are on a small scale. So, I believe this is probably the --- the first time the basic science has large scale fundraising. And, because, you know --- can we off the record?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Sure. [The recorder is paused.]
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
To …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
: Sure. Sure.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Share the numbers. So okay we’re back after about a four minute pause. And so I wanted to ask you, Dr. Hung, how successful has the Basic Science Institute been in raising
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Okay.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
--- what’s --- how much money has been raised?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Okay. So at this moment I may not know how much money was raised, but, however, as I told you this is the first very large scale …of Basic Science Center and getting together departments --- and --- and becoming an Institute for Basic Science. At that time, based on the strategic plan a --- we were aiming at $50 million to $70 million.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
This is 5-0 and 7-0 right, not 15 and 17. 00:44.6]
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
[00:44:5 Yeah, it is 5-0 and 7-0 mill ---
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Of course this is talking about in a long term. And to build up a very, very, very strong basic science program. But the Institute---- that was a vision of strategic plan at the time when Dr. Mendelson was president. Now we have a change in leadership and the institution may have a different kind of a --- a --- a --- a direction now. So that is still there. But in terms of fundraising priority, whether this is still the highest priority for the Development Office that I don’t know. Probably in the Provost’s and President’s Office, and certainly now in the Science institute we have a very large Moon Shots which are likely --- I --- my understanding is they would be probably the highest priority. However, at least on record, that to support the Basic Sciences with very strategically and then to come out with this kind of large number, I believe this is the largest one.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow. That’s amazing 01:49.7]
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Although I could be wrong, though, but I believe it is the largest one. 01:51.9]
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now I’m curious what --- what was your strategy to convince people to give to
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
For Basic Science?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, for Basic Science.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
It won’t be d --- it won’t be difficult.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
For example, like is --- the one I told you --- we --- we do ____ ____, right? 02:03.0 Just using myself. By identifying this ____ ____ 02:08.2 pathway to predict response to a specific anti-cancer drug.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So that’s one right away.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So it’s very concrete. 02:15.9]
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Oh yeah --- yeah. And then
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Very patient related.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Oh yeah --- yeah --- yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Because when we do fundraising we always have the patient --- because that’s in --- technical that’s also more easier to fund, to run basic science.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Sure.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah. Because those people who come to MD Anderson to donate it’s not --- it’s very different from those people who go to Harvard or MIT to di --- to donate.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, I didn’t realize that.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
No because they are all cancer oriented. If they say, oh, I’m interested in supporting your basic concept on, you know, to develop a --- some sort of engineer something --- they’re not coming to MD Anderson.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Gotcha.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And many of them are patients themselves or a patient relative or some sort of organization interested in cancer. So --- and all our research is related to cancer directly or indirectly. So it won’t be difficult for us to link to cancer per se. It’s --- It’s not difficult at all. We do that all the time. And we can even use lay terms to --- to talk about it. For example we study some serial markers, and to study why this serial marker is higher in cancer patients and lower in other patients, and then understand what the mechanism is. But that --- the serial marker by itself may be a therapeutic target. And that serial marker by itself may be a predictor for a specific anti-cancer drug. And so that’s very patient related.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So it won’t be difficult
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Very interesting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
It won’t be difficult.
Recommended Citation
Hung, Mien-Chie PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 15: Vice President of Basic Research; The Institute for Basic Science" (2014). Interview Chapters. 1167.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1167
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