Chapter 06: The Early Leadership of Research Park and Others Who Contributed to the History of Research Park
Files
Loading...
Identifier
PickleJJ_01_20150315_C06
Publication Date
3-15-2005
Publisher
The Making Cancer History® Voices Oral History Collection, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle and Clifford Drummond, Oral History Interview, March 15, 2005
Topics Covered
The Interivew Subject's Story - Overview; Overview; Leadership; On Leadership; Portraits; On Texas and Texans; Research
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
Earl Walborg
Did you have interactions, many interactions with Joe Kennedy, who was that initial director?
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
No, not a whole lot. I’m thinking about somebody else was my main man. I want to say Quaid or something like that.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Hmm, would you have dealt with a Dr. Haas or somebody from Houston?
Earl Walborg
Felix Haas would have been in the biology department at Houston, and he was on the advisory committee for Buescher Science Park.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Who was?
Earl Walborg
Felix Haas. But Felix Haas was the director, the initial director.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Felix who?
Lesley Williams Brunet
Haas.
Earl Walborg
Felix Haas--
Lesley Williams Brunet
Felix Haas.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
H-A-R-T?
Lesley Williams Brunet
H-A-A-S. Haas. He would have been elderly, I think, by then.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
And we’ve got one man who was transferred from here to Denver, Colorado, I think, in this particular type of work.
Earl Walborg
Right. That was Tom Slaga.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Yeah, that’s who I was thinking of.
Earl Walborg
Tom Slaga.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Oh, yes. He was a good director. A lot of work to bring recognition down there. It says a great deal of the director, and the research they do, and the recognition they can get for the work that they do. Joe D. DiVonte, he done well. He’d been good, but there was some question about him. Did he have enough experience and background in directing? And he was. But it’s a good little project. And you never know how when some of these things start. We started the Buescher (pause) World Health--
Lesley Williams Brunet
World Health?
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Jurisprudence program. I forget the name of it. But anyway, we started it at a little federal facility at Camp Swift for people, young people who were being caught up in use of marijuana. And we had it so that these were for, facilities -- we had the land to put them on out there that would be used just for training purposes. They were not criminals -- they didn’t have any kind of record except their record might be in non-violence--
Clifford Drummond
Yeah, it was a minimum security facility.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
And we were going to limit that to strictly, take only those complications. We couldn’t find a hold-up to that because--
Clifford Drummond
You got too many.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
You got too many. Well, listen, I don’t want to hold you all up any more, we got any more questions later, let me know.
Earl Walborg
No, I think we pretty well covered the waterfront, I would say.
Lesley Williams Brunet
We have. We might do a little more research and --
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
You know what is yours, Nancy?
NANCY: Yes, sir. This right here.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Well, listen, I enjoyed the interview. I’m glad you’re all going back because you listen to me, and I'll talk big and walk loud into some places, ‘cause you’re going to go back and check with a lot of these other people and tie it all together.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Yeah, we’ll proof everything and we’ll send you a copy and if you want to make any other changes, we’ll--
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
And some of my university people may recall some of the people who helped us at the university level.
Lesley Williams Brunet
You remember quite a bit, and I’m not at all surprised.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Well, that was 30, 35 years ago.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Longer ago than that.
Clifford Drummond
The real roots are 40 years.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Yeah.
Earl Walborg
If one takes 1967 as a start date, which, really, things started before that but... it’ll be 40 years old in 2007.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
35 years ago.
Lesley Williams Brunet
My goodness. Did you hear that?
Clifford Drummond
Look at who that letter’s addressed to.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Harry Ransom, Chancellor.
Clifford Drummond
Chancellor Ransom. He was chancellor in the early 60s while he was also president.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Charlie Woodruss--
Earl Walborg
I think that was typed by Scirosi.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Yeah, it’s hand-typed on a typewriter.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
George E. -- Slade Woodridge, he was the mayor of Smithville for a long time.
Earl Walborg
We just interviewed, interviewed Woodruss, George Woodruss.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
How did (inaudible) bring Bastrop County into it? ‘Cause he was the county judge then.
Earl Walborg
Right.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
And he had to support it. And he did support it.
Earl Walborg
And he supported the E.D.A. grant.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
That’s right.
Earl Walborg
And he also, he also smoothed over some problems with the CapCo, because they had some policies with regard to parklands and open spaces and the state was giving up open spaces.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
A.J. Gus Novoside was on the city council. So was Cole. Greisenbeck was the county judge. Gus Novoside had a feed store there, but he was on the city council. Bosky. James Bosky. Kenneth or his wife, either or both have been mayors of Smithville.
Earl Walborg
(inaudible) is mayor now.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Mayor now?
Earl Walborg
Mm-hmm.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Well, I remember some of the people, and some you go down... and they don’t know you at all because that was 30, 40 years ago. They don’t remember and neither do I, but I remember a little bit of it. But I hope you all interviewed -- is Joe Swanner living?
Earl Walborg
You know, I don’t know.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
He’d be the A-man. And I don’t know who on Johnson’s staff. I don’t think Joe’s living now. Joe Swanner. Joe Basically. Swanner. But he would remember a lot about that, E.D.A. But if Joe Swanner or any of his people are still active in the public works division, they could help you with a lot of that.
Lesley Williams Brunet
I contacted the archivist with the parks and wildlife, and they’re going to see if they can find out and look at their records.
Clifford Drummond
Good.
Earl Walborg
When we talked to Judge Greisenbeck, he mentioned the name of a fellow by the name of Johnson that worked with Swanner and was instrumental in writing a lot of the grants.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Isn’t that Pierce?
Clifford Drummond
Well, he was talking about Pierce Johnson.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Pierce Johnson.
Clifford Drummond
But he was a member of the parks and wildlife board.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Pierce Johnson was on the parks board.
Clifford Drummond
This may have been another Johnson. I don’t recall that name.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Is it Johnson, Pierce? Johnson or Johnston?
Clifford Drummond
S-O-N.
Lesley Williams Brunet
OK.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Well, the E.D.A. would have a lot of that stuff and what they agreed to. That’s how we got underway on the program, by a shoestring. But--
Earl Walborg
Well, that’s what broke the dam right there, was the E.D.A. Grant. There’s no doubt about it. Without the E.D.A. grant--
Clifford Drummond
No one was going to step up first, but Pickle convinced Swanner to make that commitment.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
But we had money--
Clifford Drummond
And then he could embarrass the others and they’d come along.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
We had money through the E.D.A., and we had Joe Swanner’s cooperation because that was his field of work. He really wanted to train a [lot] of people. And I happened to have ready cash, and Irwin didn’t at the time. And I think Irwin, I’m glad Irwin is not living, is he?
Lesley Williams Brunet
No.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
He’d tell a different story to you.
Clifford Drummond
Rumor is that he’s no longer with us.
Lesley Williams Brunet
I can tell you that firsthand, because I had to sit at a desk while he lay in state at the LBJ Library, just this far away.
Clifford Drummond
Well, he was a real operator, and he was good. He was very good for the university. And people like Jake Pickle didn’t have any hesitation to go to Frank Irwin and say, “Now, Frank, we need to talk.”
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
No, I’d say, “Frank, I want to see now if you can deliver or not. See if you’re capable.”
Lesley Williams Brunet
That’s what it took, I imagine, with Frank Irwin.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Well, listen, to old Frank’s credit, between Johnson and LBJ and Connelly, our university campus is twice the size that it was originally and it’s growing. We can’t use the old Irwin development program like we did at the beginning, but man, we got about 100 acres more of that land, where the baseball field is, and the printing office. Whoo-where!
Lesley Williams Brunet
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us.
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Thank you all for coming out. Dr., good to be with you again.
Lesley Williams Brunet
It’s good to see you. You still look and sound the same to me.
Earl Walborg
Great to see you!
James Jarell “Jake” Pickle
Glad to have you out here.
END OF AUDIO 2
Recommended Citation
Pickle, James "Jake" Jerell; Drummond, Clifford; Brunet, Lesley W.; and Walborg, Earl PhD, "Chapter 06: The Early Leadership of Research Park and Others Who Contributed to the History of Research Park" (2005). Interview Chapters. 331.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/331
Conditions Governing Access
Open
