Chapter 17: MD Anderson in Turmoil Under Ronald DePinho: A Critical View of the UT System Response
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Description
In this chapter, Dr. Buchholz offers a critical perspective on the measures that leadership at UT System took to address the turbulence at MD Anderson under Dr. Ronald DePinho. Specifically, he cites the fact that no one from UT System personally came to MD Anderson to speak with those on the executive leadership committee about the situation or to conduct their own assessment of Dr. DePinho. Dr. Buchholz talks about the UT System solution of appointing Dr. Stephen Hahn [02/03/2017] to be deputy president and chief operating officer. He feels this was done in recognition of the strength of Dr. DePinho's ""outward facing skills,"" but lesser strength as an institution administrator. In support of his view that UT System didn't not communicate adequately with MD Anderson's executive leadership, he explains that the committee was not informed of Dr. DePinho's resignation [8 March 2017] and given no opportunity to discuss preparations for that event or the transition period. Dr. Buchholz talks about a phone call in which Stephen Greenberg tested his interest in serving as interim president.
Identifier
BuchholzT_03_20180308_C17
Publication Date
3-8-2018
Publisher
The Making Cancer History® Voices Oral History Collection, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center - Institutional Change; Leadership; Building/Transforming the Institution; Growth and/or Change; Obstacles, Challenges; Institutional Politics; Controversy; Institutional Processes; Critical Perspectives on MD Anderson; Understanding the Institution
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
When did you see the handwriting on the wall, that this is really not going to work?
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
Well, I was... I was getting to the point myself where I was feeling like, wow. I felt frustrated, in part, with UT System, too, that UT System was concerned, and welcoming input, and getting a lot of phone calls and welcoming emails from disgruntled faculty members. And they had some concerns, but they never came and met with me one-on-one and say, “Hey, you’re probably the closest one in the midst of this organization. You could see it from the leadership perspective. You could understand. What are your thoughts on it?” They were... And I’m not the type of person that’s going to hop in my car and drive up to Austin and talk about shortcomings of the executive functions of the institution. I would be someone that would welcome a dialogue if asked, but if they’re not interested in hearing that, so...
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Why do you think they didn’t? I mean, it’s kind of interesting. They were in a weird position, obviously. I mean, they had so backed the selection of...
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
Well, I think if they came down... If you want an honest opinion of how Dr. DePinho’s functioning, and how can they be more supportive to enable him to function better, it makes sense to talk to the people who were working with him every day, right?
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Absolutely, yeah.
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
And to do a 360-degree kind of assessment of the climate, and what are suggestions for improving the climate. There wasn’t a true assessment of Dr. DePinho’s performance by UT system. They were just kind of letter-to-the-editors assessment, right? There wasn’t a true effort on their... They could’ve hired someone to do that, right? We had all these leadership consultants coming in every week it seemed like, that would try to help with this, and we’d have honest conversations. We’d say, “Well, where did this go?” And so there was enough people offering suggestions. It’s just they chose not to do that. And back to where you felt what I felt, like things really have changed, they came up within a solution to the problem that didn’t really address the problem. And I think that was when the solution just organizationally didn’t make any sense.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What was the incident?
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
Well, I think, in the end—this is Tom interpretation. Now, I wasn’t in the room, so this is... In the end, they felt as if Ron had tremendous strengths in a lot of areas: fundraising, connectivity. He was even getting more—Ron himself was getting more interested in becoming a national voice of healthcare, and he was involved with the transition to the Trump administration, and having a real influence of who are going to be the leaders of healthcare moving forward. And he was connected with the Pope, and he was hanging out with Mark Zuckerberg. And he had become such a face of not just oncology but really healthcare, and electronic healthcare, and the interface of how we could deliver healthcare, and he was into that. He really enjoyed that. And he was good at that. So I think UT System saw that, and saw the benefits of what that could bring to UT, and then they said, “But what’s his shortcoming? It’s the downward, inward facing connectivity.” So their solution was, well, let’s just create out of the blue a different organizational structure. Let’s have a chief operating officer who is just kind of randomly put in place almost overnight.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And this is Steve Hahn.
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
It was Steve Hahn, without any sort of dialogue, without, again—no sitting down with the executive team and say, “Is this the best solution? How would this work? How should we go about recruitment?” They were just going through this whole Rooney rule at UT System about how we couldn’t offer a department chair a position unless we had interviewed a female or minority candidate, and how equity... And all of a sudden the deputy president is whimsically appointed within a 24-hour period, it seemed, as if there is this crisis without... I never gave any input in the organizational structure. And you think, again, as—I don’t know if Ron was given an option about this.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Yeah, I was wondering about that myself.
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
I don’t know. It wasn’t as if we have an executive committee meeting to talk about this. It was, “Oh, Tom, this is going to be okay. Your job’s not going to change. You’re—”
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And who was the one who gave you that message?
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
Ron, yeah. We’d have one more... I was like, “Well, I think... Why don’t we pull us all together? Of course it’s going to change. Let’s welcome Steve. Let’s kind of identify what’s going to be your roles and responsibilities.” And Steve was put in a really awkward position. I think he was hearing one message from UT System, and hearing another message from Ron. And from there, it just started to look like, hmm, things are going to unravel. And, again, this is Tom’s speculation, not with any insight. I don’t think the Chancellor brought in Dr. Hahn to then give a pathway for having Ron step down. I think he really brought him in as a solution to allow Ron to be successful. But the irony was within six weeks or so, then...
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
It was over.
Thomas Buchholz, MD:
It was over. And...
Recommended Citation
Buchholz, Thomas A. MD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 17: MD Anderson in Turmoil Under Ronald DePinho: A Critical View of the UT System Response" (2018). Interview Chapters. 594.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/594
Conditions Governing Access
Open
