
Chapter 08: The Rationale Behind Translational Research and Why MD Anderson Provides a Good Environment
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Description
Dr. Hung describes meeting Dr. Waun Ki Hong, then explains what it means to think in a translational way, where a researcher works purposefully for a clinical outcome (rather than allowing these to spring accidentally from work not explicitly conducted with clinical issues in mind). Dr. Hung also notes that, as MD Anderson, “important clinical colleagues” are dealing with significant clinical questions, creating an environment conducive to solving the most important clinical questions in cancer. Dr. Hung points out why the overexpression of the HER2 neu oncogene is a great example of the translational model of research.
Dr. Hung expresses how happy he is to work at MD Anderson, where he can pursue his passion for clinical research questions. He explains why he loves the song, The Impossible Dream.
Dr. Hung describes the mindset of researchers involved in translational questions, where basic science outcomes can influence patients. He notes that scientists are part of the human community and can make a contribution to human issues.
Identifier
HumgMC_02_20140307_C08
Publication Date
3-7-2014
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - The Researcher; The Researcher; Portraits; Overview; Definitions, Explanations, Translations; Personal Reflections, Memories of MD Anderson; Institutional Mission and Values; MD Anderson Culture; Personal Background; On Research and Researchers; Understanding Cancer, the History of Science, Cancer Research; The Life and Dedication of Clinicians and Researchers
Transcript
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Let me go back just a little bit, Dr. Hung. There were two questions I wanted to ask you. Kind of about --- well, let me back up. When I was talking to Waun Ki Hong [oral history interview], he was saying that he had discovered a model for research. And I read somewhere you saying that your approach to the oncogene was a kind of model. Being to use that as a kind of model. Is that --- and I wanted to ask you about that. I mean, have you developed over the course of these early studies a sort of style or philosophy or way of putting together a study which is going to end up being translational in the long run? Could you talk to me about that?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So let me try to understand you --- your question more specific. Say, when Ki – oh, by the way, you know the story, right? Ki Hong and I?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
You said you were brothers (laughter).
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And he always says my last name is spelled wrong, and I agree with him because spell H-O-N-G probably more correct than Hung.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
And he’s your big brother, right? So he gets to boss you around (laughter).
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Well, he can ____. As a real big brother. As a real big brother. Actually, you know, the first time I met him is when I was here as a young professor …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… and my mail would go to him.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, really?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Because Hong, everybody call him _______.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, my gosh.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But he knew I was coming. Because he knew I was working on oncogenes. He know.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Uh-huh.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then, because as I told you, when I come, the oncogene was hot. So he took that letter to my office and I was waiting for it. And that’s was the first time we met.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s ____.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And so he become my senior brother. Anyway, so --- the question is what?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, I know it’s kind of --- kind of abstract and ill-formed, but one of the things as I’ve been talking to researchers who are doing translational research. I’ve been trying --- because this was a way of doing research that was in development. I mean, as you were --- were embarking on this intense career. And so --- and now, it’s coming of age. So, I’m trying to get a sense of how did you learn to approach problems in this way? Is there --- is there a systematicity to it? Do you have kind of a style? You know, when you take a new grad student under your --- under your wing and show them the ropes, is there a way that you tell them they can begin thinking about this problem in a translational way?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Okay, okay. There are two ways we can think about it. As a scientist, everybody --some basic scientists like to do their own work. And so they --- they do their own interest, whatever interest they’re into. And then when they discover something that may be related translation … … and that’s --- that was not on purpose, by design. But that’s extent, just like a double helix. Double helix, they discover the strain, they discover it. So that’s one type. Another type is more on purpose to --- to answer the clinical question, and that is the strength at MD Anderson.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. That’s --- and that’s the question I’m asking.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah, and that’s the --- for example, we come to this E1A because of HER2 overexpression. And HER2 overexpression cause cancer patient death, right? So then we say, okay, in that situation, can I block it? If I block it, is this a drug? So, we develop new oncogene therapy, right? And then we, in order to get therapy in the lab, we can do it in the lab, we can do it in animals, but eventually we go to FDA and go to --- and so go to clinical trial. That’s what we do. And then you can do that eas --- not easily. We can do that relatively easily at MD Anderson than at many other regular campus.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
If we are doing that at Rice [University], it’s going to be very difficult. In U of H, it’s going to be very difficult.____. I could work in Rice, I could work in U of H, but it’s two different --- it’s different ball game. MD Anderson has all these structures. Okay. And so, to be working at MD Anderson, one of the nice things, there are a lot of important clinical questions here. Where your clinical colleagues --you know, in the ___ 0:35:46, we don’t have faculty club now. Used to be faculty club everything ___ 35:47. You go to lunch, every --- all those clinicians are the number one in their field, right? So, and you know that’s your colleagues, you talk to them in their lunchtime. Those questions (clicking fingers), sometimes we can just look at a question, I cannot do anything on it. But if those question come into mind, hey, wait a minute, can we do this? And then try to give --- give a shot.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. Or someone talks about a clinical question and suddenly, oh, wait a minute, I know something about a molecular mechanism.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And I’m going to give you a lot of examples.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
This is one of them. And that’s --- that’s how I come into HER2/neu, right?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
That’s one of them. And then --- and so, therefore, by people in --- and environment like MD Anderson, that has all the clinical complement, surgeon, oncologist, pathologist, and radiation oncology --all those people who are dealing with --- on the clinical side, dealing with patient in first --- first line. And with the researcher here, in my personal view, is to my benefit. Because I’m involved in an environment of people who know all the central questions of cancer. I don’t have to go to, if I want to review, I won’t go to library, to do something. I just talk to my colleagues here. I can pick out most important clinical question in cancer area and then, by training, we are --- in molecular cell biology working with cancer. Then when we know those questions, there are a lot of other questions. Doesn’t mean every question I can answer. But I can pick up those questions where we may have expertise and to do a project, and then come back to the ___ 0:37:21 so called model. Because in the lab, we build a model. We build up cell line model. We build up animal model to test the clinical question. HER2 overexpression is a good example, right? And then HER2 overexpression, it’s causing cancer patient death --- death in a cell. In the animal experiment and in the lab, we can test that to see HER2 overexpression cause metastasis, cause tumor, and then if you suppress it, you can suppress tumor ___ 0:37:52 express itself. Okay. So that’s --- that’s why I enjoy so much working at MD Anderson. And also, I personally feel I have been benefited by MD Anderson’s environment much, more than I actually contributed to MD Anderson. Because this is incredible place and the people here, working here, are incredible people. And all those clinicians all have passion. They can make much more money in reality, right? Go somewhere else. But they stay here because they have their patients. They are treating cancer patient and they want to do cancer rese --- their clinical research so that they can develop --- make --- develop something which doesn’t exist and make it exist. Making impossible possible.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. Make it ….
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I like that. I like that song, The Impossible Dream.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
The impossible dream, yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
To dream the impossible dream.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then we --- in MD Anderson, we can dream that.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And, indeed, that has been happening. HER2 overexpression at a time when it was cloning in the early 19 --- in the mid-1980s, overexpression in cancer patients, the HER2 is very poor. No --- no drug … the survival rate is poor and now, all you wanted was not being approved by FDA. But I’m happy because of the cloning of gene. Now, genetics has developed a acceptance. They app ---The FDA approved 1998. And up to that, they are _______ approved. They were given drug, part of this molecule. And they cure a lot of cancer patients and that’s our contribution. If we can develop drug, perfect. If we cannot develop drug, we contribute. No one person really cures cancer patient but we are in the scientific community. We contribute what we can contribute. And then, benefits the cancer patient. And now, HER2 overexpression patients, I still have some specific example that in --- in the mid --- in the mid 1990, some of my friend --- my friend’s sister, actually, had HER2 overexpression breast cancer but she died. At that time, she actually came to see me, but there was no drug yet. But if she was a patient today, she has a 60% of chance to survive for more than five years. So, it’s different.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So we see --- we witness, we witness, say the patient was supposed to die but now, because there is an effective drug, another new clinical target therapy. And then as a basic scientist, we can contribute. We are not the only people who can cure the patient but we can contribute to it. Why not? Why not? And that’s why --- part of reason I just cannot leave MD Anderson. This place and the people here.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Is there a special mindset, do you think, that this kind of research takes, you know, I mean if ev --- if --- if --- probably not everyone is suited to doing this kind of research.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So talk to me. What --- what is it --- what does it take?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I would assume that, you know, as a scientist, there are basic scientists who don’t want to work on disease, because I’m basic scientist. That’s fine, I respect that. Okay? And then, but there --- this talk of translational scientists, we --- we also do basic science too, but we have a mind that if our basic science outcome can benefit patients, then the question is, why not? And I can share one example with you. My mother who spend the first --- the first 10 years when I was here, she was one time --- she spend 50% of her time in Taiwan and 50% here. When I talked to him her about what I’m doing, she had no idea. But if I tell her I’m developing gene therapy and I develop animal model, and animal with this tumor and I inject, the tumor disappear, and I am going to move to clinical trial, then she understand. She und --- and then when she come next time, she come _____.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But if I tell her, oh, I’m cloning gene and doing this signal translation, she has no idea what I’m talking about. Okay, so that’s the difference. And I do feel as a scientist, we are --- we are part of all human beings. We’re part of the community, right? So if we can contribute --- contribute a lot of way. I mean, it’s a cancer center, it develop something to benefit cancer patients, a certain contribution. And of course, research contribution can be very broad. We train the next generation of scientists, our trainees. They may be a cancer biologist. They may not ___ 0:42:12. They learn all this skills, our PhD students or post-doc fellows. They may in the future to do the Alzheimer’s disease or aging or something, or a disease not yet been discovered.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. Exactly.
Recommended Citation
Hung, Mien-Chie PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 08: The Rationale Behind Translational Research and Why MD Anderson Provides a Good Environment" (2014). Interview Chapters. 1160.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1160
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