Chapter 09: Training Basic Scientists: Grasping the Field and Preparing for the Future
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Dr. Hung notes that his laboratory graduates more Ph.D.s than any other at MD Anderson and that his mentees go on to solid careers. He next explains the unique features of the Department’s Journal Club, which meets on Saturday mornings and gives the department an opportunity to review fifteen to twenty journal articles. Dr. Hung explains that is it usual to review a much smaller number of articles in great detail, but he wants his faculty and graduate students to learn how to assess articles for new concepts in the field that might be exploited. He also notes that this practice enables graduate students to learn how to present concepts to peers and colleagues, and is part of his pedagogic approach to broaden graduate students capacities to assess concept and make research decisions based on a view of activity in a field. He explains the important of training graduate students to address “diseases we do not know about.”
Identifier
HumgMC_02_20140307_C09
Publication Date
3-7-2014
Publisher
The Making Cancer History® Voices Oral History Collection, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - The Educator; The Researcher; The Mentor; Mentoring; Research, Care, and Education; Education at MD Anderson; On Research and Researchers; Understanding Cancer, the History of Science, Cancer Research; Discovery, Creativity and Innovation
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Right? And that’s what we can contribute. So here with the MD Anderson, working with the clinician, at the same time we associate with our graduate school. We train PhD students. I enjoy that a lot. I train probably in MD Anderson faculty --I think I’m probably right, the number of PhD students graduating from my lab is number one.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I don’t think anybody can beat my record. In the last 27 – 30 years in the history of GSBS I believe the number of PhD students graduate from my lab total.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And I enjoy it because I --- I teach them and I learn from them. The first-year student come in August very naïve. It take them I a while, they don’t know anything. But usually by the time they graduate, I told them, if you start to feel Dr. Hung is pretty stupid, that’s probably the time you graduate.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
(Laughter)
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Because you approach it, you know better than me.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… you know, that’s about time. But at the very beginning, certainly I know better.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But that’s --- we --- and then we learn from them. We teach them and we learn from them. And then --- and that’s really benefit the scientific community. I enjoy to training PhD students. And I have a lot of outstanding PhD students here. My PhD students, they are --- currently there are five faculty members here.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
___ Dr. Dihua Yu is one of them. The other person I could mention, he’s still very active in MD Anderson. The other two person also kind of involved, not as much as ___. Dihua Yu. Is ____Naoto Tada Ueno.___
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
No … no. I don’t know that name.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
He’s is in Breast Medical Oncology. He’s my PhD student. And at the time he was my PhD student, he was a M.D. fellow.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So he joined the PhD. And the other one is Joe Chen. I don’t --- He changed his name now. He was my PhD student. Both of them also kind of involved in E1A project.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Uhuh.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But the major discovery was made by ____.Dihua Yu. But, you know, it --- a major discovery is not by one person. The maj --- one person major but this two person, and both of them are physician at MD Anderson. Naoto Tada Ueno____ now is in breast medical oncology. Joe Chen is in radiation oncology. And she --- both of them actually participate that, too. And Joe Chen, after Ph.D., train with me then he went somewhere else to complete her his --- he came from China here as M.D., PhD. So he went to resident training. So become a clinician then come back to MD Anderson in radiation oncology. In radiation oncology. And I have two Ph.D. student who are currently still faculty members in MD Anderson.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I’m not sure about this second name you have, Joe Chen, and then NaoloNaoto, and the second …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Wi ___Ueno.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Wi – oh, W - ___Ueno.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
That’s a Chinese Japanese name.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, U-E-N-O.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Japanese name.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I got you. Alright.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Japanese the name.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I’ve never seen it.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And both of them are still very active here.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I think one is associate professor, the other one is a full professor here.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Uhuh. That’s very exciting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, very exciting.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, thank you for answering that question about translational research. You know, because that’s ….
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So ___ model.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, and the idea of model, you know, kind of how you go about doing it, …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Actually, you know what? After being in the field for a while, I start at the very beginning, it’s very difficult. How to do translational research. When was it like pretty easy? It’s just, make a friend with it.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
(Laughter)
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
For example, this one, HER2/neu, I start with it, you know. I took a long time in learning, right? Now, I have multiple projects in my laboratory. So it depend on which disease I am going to deal with.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Okay. And HER2 cancer is difficult and cancer stem cell is difficult. Or, like, have you heard of triple-negative breast cancer difficult, okay?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Okay. It’s difficult. You go in, you read the literature, and I have a journal club. Okay. I run a very --- a --- a --- very unusual journal club every Saturday morning from 10:00 to 12:00. Then we buy --- we take turn to buy food for people in the lab. It’s not mandatory because of the weekend but many people who --- student ____ 46:27, they come. Then we take turn to present, you know what? We --- we don’t --- usually for scientist when you present a paper in detail, it’s one paper or two paper discussed, that --- that’s enough. We --- and every Saturday, we take turn to overview 15 to 20 publication in recent journal, and important ones.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, my gosh.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But we don’t talk about details. We look at it, what’s the title, what’s in the abstract? What did they talk about it in reviews. And look at the model. And then if it’s new knowledge, we learn it, right? And --- and for trainees for student post docs, they learn how to present. How to, in a very short period of time, pick up 20 paper or 15 papers to present them, right? And then, I can show you … that’s one of the recent ones. Yeah. ____ (90:47:18.5) present this one. This paper. I usually do collective. I don’t ___
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, wow.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Saturday journal club. And that’s all the papers we presented.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
All the papers. Wow.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then all the presentations.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, my gosh! Two pages.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But it’s --- it’s ….
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… it’s only what. Nineteen minutes for presentation.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But we don’t talk about details. We talk about concepts, we brainstorm. Then we say, if this is important, why is this important, and what is the lesson we should learn, right? And then after that, if it is something related to our study….
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… this is published recently, is it important, right?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So, what’s the next question we should do?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
But that’s --- that is so important, I think, for graduate students because I think particularly beginning graduate students can get so bogged down in the details. Because that’s what they get --- that’s what they can handle. And --- but here, you’re really looking at the lay of the land …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Thank you.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
… conceptually.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Thank you. I’m very proud of this one.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
In my trainees, student post doc fellows after their --- after their training here, they go outside ____
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes. yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… because they are very broad …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… when they think about it.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
One week, you pick up 10, 20 papers …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… one year.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s excellent training.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
After five year training.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s amazing.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So compared to their colleagues …… at the very beginning they have knowledge.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And also we discuss concepts, we do brainstorming. We don’t necessarily talk about detail, we say, okay, why is this important, right? And what’s the next important question? And then I will say, okay. I frequently say that this so important but don’t do it. We don’t have the expertise to do it, that we --- we cannot compete with them.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
But there are something --- I say if we pick up some idea, we will go in, we have to use our expertise, _____ or somebody discuss something very, very interesting ______, are we going to move, we don’t have a lot of knowledge on it, right? But cancer, we do. Special cancer models and all particular molecules, we have expertise on it. They discover this and we know this, how about combining these, can we do something? So, now for me to find a project, important project, to me, it’s not an issue. I just need more money and more space, period.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And course will be better ___ 49:20. __ funding situation.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
But I’m …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
_______
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
…I’m thinking, too, I mean, what an amazing skill and gift to give those graduate students. Because that’s not --- that doesn’t merely affect the decisions about individual projects. That’s like, how do you manage your career?
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I mean, how do you think intelligently about ….
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And also for them, it’s the training, say, when they become independent. But they have to think about what they want to do. They can easily find out because they have to go through this training. And so I’m very proud that I created this one …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… and so I buy and lucky. MD Anderson allow me to, every Saturday, to buy food for them to eat. Even in the times when we were hiring freeze, we still can do it.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
(Laughter)
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
At that time, we --- we control budget, we still.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
(Laughter)
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So I use --- I use a lot of nonrestrictive funding from my ___ And that’s nonrestrictive. So --- so I ___ out.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
(Laughter)
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then --- then we join and --- and --- and the weekend coming, and you don’t have to come. If you happen to have, you know, family event or something. You know, it’s --- it’s the weekend. But most of the people come.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Sure.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Most of the people come.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Hey, free food and ideas.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
(Laughter)
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
(Laughter). Magic combination.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
There are a lot of journal club people around, but this one, I created, and this one is very different from most other people’s.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And this, I personally give benefit.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Because they --- they read and then we discuss it and I’m the one who…
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes. Excellent.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah, it’s --- it’s very nice.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
So I am never short of ideas to do. We just need so many idea so we have to prioritize which is most important. And that’s why I can mentor many students and sometimes student comes out, “Oh, you have so many students, so do you have still have project? It’s not a matter of, do I have project now. I don’t lack --- I don’t lack ideas. I only lack of money. And space. (Laughing)
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Once I have that, I can --- and we have good idea. Then we have good training and that students to do well and then they graduate, they are successful.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
And, they’re successful, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, thank you for telling me about that. That’s great.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I --- I --- I’m very passionate on training …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… I’m very passionate on training …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… or education
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Because it’s important we cure cancer, of course. But the next generation --- next generation, as I mentioned earlier, there are some diseases we don’t even know their name yet …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
…right? For example, SARS. Twenty years ago, there’s no SARS. You remember SARS, the infectious disease, SARS.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, yes. SARS, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Right?
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Absolutely.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
AIDS. Because AIDS hang around for 30 years now. Fifty years ago, there’s no AIDS, right? So, in science, you have to continue and then we have to pass our knowledge to our next generation and they are --- they are always better than us. They are always better than --- they are always better than us …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… because we provide a background for them to follow, more and more in the ___and then that can make human life better, you know, … and that’s our contribution. So here at the cancer center, I have a passion for cancer and I’m very lucky to work in MD Anderson. But at the same time, we are affiliated with our grad school. We have a chance to train students and we have a chance to train that young post-doc fellow, and let them develop their ___ 0:52:15.1 career. And then, they’re --- our future … you know – I don’t how to say that – our future whatever we have. Future --- our future relies on them. Yeah. I train a lot of students and they are always successful. And I’m --- and I’m very happy to see when a student comes in very naïve, but at the time when they when then are senior, they stop it. Nobody’s perfect but they are much better than before. And I feel very proud. And I feel very --- self, how do you say that? Self satisfaction. Self …
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Self …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… satisfaction.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
… satisfaction. You’re gratified.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah, you --- you put effort, you know.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yes.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
I could find funds to support them
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
… and --- and I can educate them. And they --- they improving. And then, some of them is so smart. They are better than me. And I can foresee this guy in the future is going to fly.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know my dad always use to say, you know, education is the one thing no one can ever take away from you.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
And that’s it.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
You know.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Education makes you better.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Education makes you better.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah. It’s just training that person …
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
… for the future.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
Yeah.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
And then we always have to continue to pay attention to them.
T.A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah.
Mien-Chie Hung, PhD:
We ____ while we are going it.
Recommended Citation
Hung, Mien-Chie PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 09: Training Basic Scientists: Grasping the Field and Preparing for the Future" (2014). Interview Chapters. 1161.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1161
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