Chapter 01: Move to MD Anderson
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Description
In this chapter, Lora Frances Davis discusses being recommended to work at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center and her initial impressions of both the institution and Research Medical Library. She highlights Dr. R. Lee Clark's emphasis on acquiring essential cancer literature and the process of making early purchases to support the expanding library. Ms. Davis believes that the library has played a crucial role within the institution since its inception and has been well-utilized by MD Anderson's physicians and scientists.
Identifier
DavisLF_01_20050618_C01
Publication Date
6-18-2005
Publisher
The Making Cancer History® Voices Oral History Collection, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - Joining MD Anderson/Coming to Texas; Professional Path; Building/Transforming the Institution; Professional Practice; The Professional at Work; Joining MD Anderson
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
Lesley Williams Brunet
This is Lesley Williams-Burnet about to record an oral history with Miss Lora-Francis Davis, and also joining us in the interview is Kathy Hoffman, director of the research medical library. The date is June 18th, 2005. This interview is being recorded for the MD Anderson Oral History Project.
OK, you –
Lesley Williams Brunet
Kathy, I'll just ask you about your father. He was a surgeon?
Lora Frances Davis
My father was a surgeon. We lived in a small town, so he did everything, and he had a clinic. And my father had been president of the Florida Medical Association in the Southeastern Surgical Congress, but in the big trip in his life was to go to the Mayo Clinic when he was not long out of medical school. He had appendicitis and went back to Atlanta where he went to school, and his professors were going on a trip, and they went to the Mayo Clinic, and Kellogg Foundation, and all the [Guile?] Clinic -- all the big things that there were in that day. And they were entertained by the Mayo brothers, and they were asked to come back and he's -- he went back and studied there for a while. And so I always wanted to see the Mayo Clinic. Besides, I like the libraries that were there that I knew in the Medical Library Association. And so I would say, a couple of times for meetings and things, and the Mayo brothers' niece took me and showed me through the foundation house and everything, where she used to live. Anyway, it was a place I visited when I first came back from Japan -- I'd been working in the far east – I was the medical library at Tokyo US Army Hospital and I was the party’s the far east command consultant.
Lora Frances Davis
And when I came back home to get a job in the United States, I went by the Mayo Clinic, and they recommended me to Dr. Clark, and that's how I got the job here.
Kathryn Hoffman
[2:17]
Oh, that's how you came here.
Lesley Williams Brunet
That's the connection. That is. So did you contact Dr. Clark or he contacted you? How did that come about?
Lora Frances Davis
Oh, he contacted me.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh. And tell me, did he -- he called you on the phone, or do you remember?
Lora Frances Davis
I don't really remember. I had stopped another place (inaudible) on the way home. Anyway, I knew he might call me several times, and he went up some on his offer, so I came.
Lesley Williams Brunet
So you did some negotiating there? That was smart.
Lora Frances Davis
(laughter)
Right. Also University of Kentucky had offered me a place too at the time. So anyway, I came here. I went several places (inaudible). I went here, and you know, two or three other places. And anyway, I was glad to come to Texas.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Why were you glad to come to Texas?
Lora Frances Davis
It was nearer to Florida than those other places. (laughter) I was born in Florida.
Lesley Williams Brunet
So tell me about your first impressions when you first saw the MD Anderson. Or the library.
Lora Frances Davis
The library was smallish. It was on the first floor, [Redacted]
Kathryn Hoffman
Oh, (inaudible). Mmm hmm.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh, I copied a couple of --
Kathryn Hoffman
Yeah, we have it right here. Her name.
Lora Frances Davis
Jane Burton was much beloved by this institution, but she was not a professional librarian. And so they had in a way of -- they call Jane, they want something, and she'd go around and find, and she'd take the book to them, and they didn't have any record on who had what. And they had conference rooms all around, and it looks in the conference, but you were not allowed to interrupt the conference, so it was kind of hard to get things to people anyway. And in the meantime, they were preparing a different place. We were on the first floor.
Lesley Williams Brunet
When you say the first floor, was that the ground floor?
Lora Frances Davis
Yes.
Lesley Williams Brunet
OK, the numbers --
Lora Frances Davis
The main entrance.
Lesley Williams Brunet
The numbers change kind of over the years --
Lora Frances Davis
Well this was all -- this was at --
Lesley Williams Brunet
-- on the ground floor.
Lora Frances Davis
Mmm hmm. On the ground floor. And not too long after I was there, the water pipes broke into those beautiful German volumes. And anyway I know I was really impressed it -- it was just like pouring down rain, and I asked somebody, and I got up on a ladder, and handed all the books, and asked somebody to hand me my raincoat. (laughter) And anyway --
Lesley Williams Brunet
So you had a rescue operation right away?
Lora Frances Davis
Yeah, and they asked me what I wanted. And I said did they have any hair dryers here. And they did have a beauty parlor. So we got the hair dryers rigged up and as soon as we got the volumes down we had -- you know, air blowing on them so we could try to save them.
Lesley Williams Brunet
That's -- we do whatever we have to, don't we.
Kathryn Hoffman
Right, right, right. That's what we --
Lesley Williams Brunet
You said they were the German -- German volumes?
Kathryn Hoffman
We think it was the --
Lora Frances Davis
These (inaudible) are key. [29650?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
Kathryn Hoffman
And we still had those.
Lora Frances Davis
Uh-uh.
Kathryn Hoffman
Oh the Virchow?
Lora Frances Davis
Uh-uh.
Kathryn Hoffman
Uh-uh.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh OK. Yes we do still have those. Those are important.
Lora Frances Davis
Mmm hmm. That's it. So I asked them --
Lesley Williams Brunet
Thanks for rescuing those.
Lora Frances Davis
-- having worked before but we did insure things -- I asked them how much insurance they had on those volumes? And they said Texas didn't have -- believe in insurance -- that the University of Texas and everything -- they always insured them -- considered they were insured themselves.
Kathryn Hoffman
And they still are. They still do that. They say we're self-insured.
Lesley Williams Brunet
We -- self-insured. Oh.
Kathryn Hoffman
Is that noise going to be tuned?
Lesley Williams Brunet
No, it's not really picking up.
Lora Frances Davis
Well then we were preparing to move into the new area on the seventh floor, and that's where we moved to.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Right. Now was that the same floor that Dr. Clark was on?
Lora Frances Davis
Same floor Dr. Clark was on. His office was on the other end. And you didn't go to see Dr. Clark, he came to see you if he had wanted to say anything to you (laughter), but I mean -- he might send somebody for something, but you didn't go see Dr. Clark. That was his way of handling things, and --
Lesley Williams Brunet
If you had a question would you send him a memo or something or --
Lora Frances Davis
You could.
Kathryn Hoffman
She was too -- oh I'm sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say when we were walking to the library this morning, she told me that Dr. Clark would frequently send a resident or somebody to the library at like 5 o'clock the day before he was supposed to give a talk.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh, I'm sure.
Kathryn Hoffman
And then they would research it and write it, but she'd be here way into the night.
Lora Frances Davis
I spent all night here several times because they had the idea if you're above a certain level, that they -- all their time was yours -- all your time was theirs.
Lesley Williams Brunet
They still think that, right?
Kathryn Hoffman
Yeah.
Lora Frances Davis
Mmm hmm.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Lora Frances Davis
That's right. That's right. I have worked all night with some of them. Sometimes the residents, though, would get notified late in the afternoon that they had to have this paper by the next morning.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Would the -- but Clark would deliver it as his own?
Kathryn Hoffman
Right.
Lora Frances Davis
Right.
Lesley Williams Brunet
That's interesting.
Lora Frances Davis
My (inaudible) say, "Oh, Dr. Clark gave us a (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)." (laughter)
Lesley Williams Brunet
Did he ever give anyone else credit?
Lora Frances Davis
Not much. I think when they're published they probably have to give them -- split them at the third line, person down, but not the first one, you know, because sometimes they have two or three people.
Lesley Williams Brunet
And he gave a lot of papers.
Lora Frances Davis
Yes he did.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Yes.
Lora Frances Davis
And then they'd had things about -- you know -- when he'd appear before the legislators (inaudible) get money or something like that.
Lesley Williams Brunet
And there wasn't any public affairs department then, was there?
Lora Frances Davis
No, not that I know of.
Lesley Williams Brunet
So the library sort of had that function in a way.
Lora Frances Davis
Well, the biggest other thing that we had to do outside of just work normal library hours is that during World War II, the National Library of Medicine's indexing system , which was the only one they had at the time anyway to access articles and journals and things. Anyway, they'd gotten way behind, and so they were several years behind in indexing. And some of the larger libraries would do some indexing for them or something, but it still ran sort of hodgepodge. And so we subscribed to I think about 700 journals, and some in foreign languages. And every week we were supposed to index all the journals, enough to pull out the articles that as they came in, whatever we got that week. You were supposed to list all of the articles that had to do with cancer or pre-cancer. And sometimes I would miss one, and then I did not know that many languages so we had a lot of foreign residents, and I'd get them to help me with whatever language they had. And then we sent copies over to Baylor’s library. On Monday morning it's supposed to be there by 10 o'clock Monday morning.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Copies of the index.
Lora Frances Davis
Mmm hmm. We just -- every week we'd put out this little index of whatever articles, whatever journals we had. Just the index, not the whole thing. Just the index of what had to do with cancer or pre-cancer.
Lesley Williams Brunet
And you'd send it to Baylor, or to the library?
Lora Frances Davis
To the Baylor library. The medical --
Lesley Williams Brunet
The medical center.
Lora Frances Davis
– The medical school's library.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh, okay.
Kathryn Hoffman
That's what became Houston Academy of Medicine. Baylor and Houston Academy collections merged.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh, right. That's right that the -- I couldn't remember when the Jones Library was built. I guess it was --
Kathryn Hoffman
That was in the '50s wasn't it? The Jones Library building?
Lora Frances Davis
I don't know exactly when they build it. When I was here was about '57-'59.
Lesley Williams Brunet
'59. I can't remember when it opened, but right. So that was -- so it was to the library.
Kathryn Hoffman
Mmm hmm.
Lora Frances Davis
Mmm hmm. And one of the things Dr. Clark did -- he wanted to buy every book that he could find out about. Anything that had to do with cancer. And I think in some ways he was a real sucker for some of the salesmen because they would come and give him some fancy blurb about some book, and he would pay a lot for it when he -- could you have been able to buy it for a whole lot less. And so I asked him to let me go to the New York Academy of Medicine and study how they bought because at that time, they had the largest collection -- you know outside of the National Library of Medicine -- on the history of medicine anyway and any historical things. And so I went up there to learn from them, who wrote about how what people to buy from and things like that.
Kathryn Hoffman
She remembers ma' -- she asked me if [Majors?] was still around.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh yes.
Kathryn Hoffman
So you bought books from [Majors?].
Lora Frances Davis
Oh yeah. Mmm hmm. We got a lot of things from [Majors?].
Kathryn Hoffman
I bet you, you probably bought a lot of the books that we have in the history of cancer collection.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Probably some of them, right, because the -- as I understand the rare book money was from the '40s and I don't really know how long it lasted.
Lora Frances Davis
And Dr. Clark would never let you turn anybody. One time I went to a library meeting -- this was towards the end of the fiscal year -- and some of the people that asked for some kind of thing like poetry or something, and so I said, "You know, it's near the end of the fiscal year, and we don't have so much money now. So if you really need something, and it's really important to you to get it, well let me know, and I'll get it for you right away. But if it's just something you think it'd be nice if we had, we'll wait till next year." And Dr. Clark said right away, "If you need any more money you tell me because a $25 procedure -- a $25 book -- could save us a $2,000 procedure.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Mmm. Good point. Well I wondered, did you have a set amount in the budget to buy books, or did you have to ask Dr. Clark every time you wanted to make a purchase?
Lora Frances Davis
No, we had a set amount. But if you were getting low on that, you could ask, and you'd just say -- you know -- that -- and he'd just --
Lesley Williams Brunet
Give you more.
Lora Frances Davis
-- he gives you more money. He promised everyone they would never be without whatever literature they need. In some way he admits that he was not satisfied to be able to get everything in the morning. And so he wanted to be sure that everybody could.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Well that's still -- still today.
Kathryn Hoffman
That's still pretty true. We're very well supported, and the library is -- it's interesting to me that from the very beginning, the library was an important piece of this institution and continues to be so.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Very important.
Lora Frances Davis
And one thing she said you don't do know, but we were here working -- both when I was -- that was true when I was in Tokyo too -- the librarian went to them -- they had a big conference once a -- I don't know -- once a week or once -- I can't remember how often they had it now. But anyway, they had a conference with the heads of all the departments, and all of the -- I'm talking about the professional ones that MD's and the PhD people, and whatever they were. Anyway, the librarian went to the conference, and every person had an opportunity to speak about something -- the progress they were making in their work, or whatever.
Kathryn Hoffman
Was it like grand rounds? Was it considered grand rounds or was it something else?
Lora Frances Davis
No it wasn't grand rounds, it was a staff meeting.
Kathryn Hoffman
Oh OK.
Lesley Williams Brunet
I know they had an administrative staff meeting, but I think there was a regular professional meeting. And that was every week, every month.
Lora Frances Davis
Yeah, they would tell what progress they were making in whatever they're doing. I remember one young -- one of the younger doctors was working on something, and they all laughed because they said instead of finding out a cure for cancer, he'd found out one for measles.
Kathryn Hoffman
Oh, interesting.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh. Do you remember who that was? I don't know they had founded -- hmm. Well do you think he did this so that everyone would know what everyone else was doing?
Lora Frances Davis
Yes, probably.
Lesley Williams Brunet
They always talked about that multidisciplinary aspect and --
Lora Frances Davis
{]
Yeah, so they'd all pull together, but that wasn't -- that was just a common practice I think, because when I was at Tokyo Army Hospital, sometimes place – there were places I know that the librarians were included in [oral?] . They used to emphasize in when you took medical [army?] course, you're supposed to try to get yourself up at the top level. You know, so you'd have more prestige and be of more service.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Have a greater voice.
Lora Frances Davis
Yes, a greater voice.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Well were these meetings always cordial?
Lora Frances Davis
One time I used Dr. Fletcher's -- and this is an example not meaning any harm to him -- I was trying to get people to bring him back their books because they get them, and they wouldn't ever bring anything back, or they -- I had been -- I had worked seven years with public health where if you -- somebody needs something -- and Florida State board of health at that time was spread all over Jacksonville. And so if you'd call, and you'd say somebody needed something, they'd try to ask you who wants it, and if you told them, they'd say, "Oh, that's near me. I'll give it to them instead of bringing it back to the library for you to give it to him." But anyway, they always were very prompt and cooperative about helping one another. But those people at that time, you asked somebody for something back, every department seemed to think they were the only ones that had the clue to what was wrong with cancer, and they were going to discover it. And the other people didn't matter. And so if you wanted to get the book back for somebody else, you told them who needed it, they'd say, "He doesn't need it as much as I do." (laugher)
Lesley Williams Brunet
Sometimes students still say that.
Lora Frances Davis
And that’s -- I know it wasn't just true of this because when we'd go to the Medical Library Association, the cancer libraries, and they have a luncheon or something. And the different other places had the same experience, you know. Every researcher was for himself in his department. It was not unified, this all work together thing.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Well I would imagine those meetings would be interesting because there were a lot of strong personalities.
Kathryn Hoffman
There certainly were.
Lesley Williams Brunet
I'm sure there still are, but can you give me your impressions of some of those people, for example, Dr. Fletcher?
Lora Frances Davis
Dr. Fletcher was highly excitable, and I spoke back one time at the meeting --
Lesley Williams Brunet
Like that phrase...
Kathryn Hoffman
That's so tough, they're all so sweet.
Lesley Williams Brunet
It's a wonderful phrase. Highly excitable. (laughter) I'm sorry.
Lora Frances Davis
And (laughs) one -- one of the things. One time I was trying to -- was it history I tell you -- I was trying to get people to want to bring their books back, and I was saying something about it, somebody needed them, and I guess used names in the example, and some -- I didn't mean any -- I didn't sign any particular book or anything, but anyway, I used Dr. Fletcher's name. Man, he was really upset, but he sent back his books. (laughter)
Lesley Williams Brunet
Whatever works. Was [Domkowsky?] -- he was still here --
Lora Frances Davis
I guess. I don't remember -- Dr. Howe was here.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Let's see. Some other people were -- Dr. Howe. I wanted to ask about Dr. Howe.
Lora Frances Davis
Dr. Howe was a really sweet, nice person.
Lesley Williams Brunet
And Dr. White. He was surgeon.
Lora Frances Davis
Yes, yes. They used to have a time when all the staff would go -- they had breaks here, which bothered me a lot when I first came because just about the time you'd be telling -- the assistant I told you was a nonprofessional that was there when I came. Just about the time you'd be trying to explain something to her, she'd say, "It's my break time." Then she'd leave. (laughter) And they had (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
Lesley Williams Brunet
I think that's the federal law. They're actually allowed to have breaks.
Lora Frances Davis
Well I know, but they had assigned times.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh they had assigned times.
Lora Frances Davis
Yes, and they went about two or three times to have break. But they had a little kind of cafeteria thing. And then the professional people went and sat in the other room. And the -- you know -- the doctors were all very friendly and everything and told stories about different things. They were interested in like, for instance, they used to say that around here, and they used to come and practice most new areas opening up. You can have this land for free if you buy some land adjacent to it that gets you to the highway or something. And the doctors said a lot of times they wished they could have bought up all those things that they got advertised because they’d make a lot of money. They’d talk about things like that, and well, they had their coffee and of course sometimes they’d talk about something -- occasionally they’d bring in somebody who’s lost a child or something and have them have coffee with them or something but mostly they talked about, you know, pleasant things and gave themselves time to relax. But everybody, coffee break was really something that they did.
Kathryn Hoffman
I’ll be darned.
Lesley Williams Brunet
And everybody had it at the same time or they were like staggered?
Lora Frances Davis
The people in offices, like the secretaries and things like that, I think it -- I think it was staggered. I can’t remember whether everybody got exactly the same time or not but I know all the clerical people did.
Lesley Williams Brunet
So --
Lora Frances Davis
Like at everything -- everybody would go zooming to the thing and they had -- it was a little cafeteria thing. It was very nice.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Did people not drink coffee at their desks then?
Lora Frances Davis
No, they -- yeah, they had a little cafeteria-like thing. You go -- I mean, you know, you’d have lunch and stuff like that besides coffee.
Lesley Williams Brunet
OK.
Lora Frances Davis
The same where they ate lunch. I mean, the same place.
Kathryn Hoffman
I wanted to ask a question. Am I going to come up on the tape?
Lora Frances Davis
Yup, you’ll come out.
Kathryn Hoffman
When we talked on the phone, you mentioned when you were here not just anybody could walk into the library. Was it (inaudible; overlapping dialogue)
Lora Frances Davis
It was in the -- you know, they used to think patients couldn’t know anything, they didn’t know anything and they might get mixed up or upset if they saw something, so no, on the seventh floor only the professional staff went in. You know, clerical people would pick up a book for somebody or something but even patients couldn’t ever walk into the professional library.
Kathryn Hoffman
What about nurses, were they allowed in the library?
Lora Frances Davis
Oh, sure, nurses (inaudible).
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh, nurses.
Kathryn Hoffman
Because I heard rumors that they weren’t allowed in either.
Lesley Williams Brunet
And did they have different privileges?
Lora Frances Davis
Actually the nurses sent me some towels.
Kathryn Hoffman
Really?
Lesley Williams Brunet
Oh, that’s nice. Well I wondered, just, who used the library?
Lora Frances Davis
Who used the library was the professional staff.
Lesley Williams Brunet
So that would have been the physicians --
Lora Frances Davis
Yeah, there were physicians, and you know --
Lesley Williams Brunet
Basic scientists.
Lora Frances Davis
Basic scientists, and yeah, all the professional people.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Did the nurses use it very much?
Lora Frances Davis
I don’t think nurses anywhere use the library very much.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Do they have their own resources, because I’ve noticed that myself.
Kathryn Hoffman
I don’t know. I really don’t know that much.
Lora Frances Davis
They do in a way. I don’t know how much they were being taught here or how much they already knew. And oh, yeah, one of the strangest things, they had a lady, I don’t remember her name now, who was in charge of something about equipment and everything. She had this thing about even if you had your leg cut off you were supposed to get out on the right side of the bed and that’s the only way you could get out of bed or whatever. They had most of this -- and there were all kinds of strange things about equipment. She had charge of equipment. It was hard to get by her to what you really needed.
Lesley Williams Brunet
That wasn’t Frances Goth (sp?) No, was it?
Lora Frances Davis
I don’t remember her name.
Kathryn Hoffman
Was she a physician, or?
Lora Frances Davis
No.
Kathryn Hoffman
Administrator?
Lora Frances Davis
[2]
Some kind of administrator. Mhm.
Lesley Williams Brunet
Well, one of the most surprising things for me was seeing the pictures of the ashtrays in the library. Would people actually smoke in the l-- well, did they smoke in the library?
Lora Frances Davis
I guess they did, I can’t remember.
Lesley Williams Brunet
So you don’t really remember them doing it.
Lora Frances Davis
There were ways that you could adjust the air conditioning and that was kind of too bad because just about the time they’d get it adjusted somebody else would come around and blew it the other way around. You
Recommended Citation
Davis, Lora Frances; Brunet, Lesley W.; and Hoffman, Kathryn Jones MSLS, "Chapter 01: Move to MD Anderson" (2005). Interview Chapters. 1218.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1218
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