Chapter 20: Work on Significant Committees: Disaster Committee; Transfusion Committee; Medical Practice Committee
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Description
In this segment, Dr. Escalante explains that the committees she worked on helped her grow as a leader, with each being a step up in importance. She mentions the Disaster Committee and Transfusion, then goes into detail about some of the issues examined when she served on the Medical Practice Committee. She also explains how this committee worked with the JCHO in the credentialing process and notes her role on the Credentialing Committee, indicating the types of issues addressed. Dr. Escalante explains the lessons she learned from this process and explains that this kind of close review of processes have led to evaluation of quality of care, formalized with hiring of Quality Officers. Dr. Escalante then sketches the leadership skills she acquired through her committee work.
Identifier
EscalanteCP_02_20140514_C20
Publication Date
5-14-2014
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - The Administrator; The Administrator; The Leader; Devices, Drugs, Procedures; Growth and/or Change
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. So let me just put the identifier on, and then we’ll—okay. So we are recording, and this is Tacey Ann Rosolowski. It is the twenty-third of May, 2014, and the time is about eighteen minutes after two, and I am here in the Division of General Internal Medicine, interviewing Dr. Carmen Escalante for our third session together. So thank you again for agreeing to take the time. I know that you’re very busy.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Longwinded [unclear]? (laughter)
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
No, not at all. You are by no means the—actually, you aren’t even close to most longwinded, the most longwinded person I’ve interviewed here. (laughs) But it’s a pleasure to talk to you.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
]+And we were actually having a very lively conversation before I turned on the recorder about the situation for women at the institution, and you were saying, “Thank goodness for Dr. Margaret Kripke” [oral history interview].
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Right.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So if you could tell me a bit. She arrived in the early eighties. You came in 1988. What did she do, do you feel, for the institution, and what changes have you seen over the course of time since you arrived?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
You know, I think that she has done some marvelous things for women at the institution. I remember her when I first started. She was in the basic sciences at that point, she wasn’t at the provost level, but she was always interested. And certainly when she became an executive leader—
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And she was the head of Academic Affairs.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Right.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
I’m just saying for the record.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Right—that she certainly made it a priority of hers to work on, I guess, showcasing women and their talents, and she did a lot of programs focused on women leaders, engaging women. The Faculty Leadership Program was hers. I was in the very first session when they brought the group down to do it. I was invited to be in that group.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And was that women only?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
No. It was the leaders, but there were quite a few women invited. And I think she highlighted women, and it was a goal of hers to make sure that women and their talents were appreciated. And Liz Travis [oral history interview] since has picked up on a lot of that by --they developed the Office—I can’t remember.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Office of Women Faculty Programs.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Faculty Programs. That was through Margaret, and Liz has led that. I think we have a long way to go still, but I think it certainly has transitioned the institution from what it was before to what it is now, that there are women chairs now of departments, and it’s much more common than what it was even ten years ago. There are many more women chairs, and I think that’s a very good thing. And I think there is more focus.Another area Margaret really built was mentoring, mentorship, especially women. She gave opportunities by appointing them to various committees or other projects. And, you know, I think we all have a lot to thank her for, her vision and foresight and her sponsorship or her use of her appointment to do that for all of us. I definitely think that that was one of the major transitions for women in this institution from where we were when I first came to what we’ve become now.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What do you think, I mean, as you look back and kind of remember her as that sort of a public figure in the institution at the time, what was it about her that made her such a successful leader and able to make those changes?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
She was, and still is, she’s a very reasonable, thoughtful person. She ultimately made the decision, but she had a reason for doing things, depending on what her decision was. But, you know, I think she tried to do the right thing, and she was highly respected, I think by—and still is, both by women and men. She cared. She cared about the faculty, she cared about the women and their careers, and she went out of her way to make it known that she was trying to do something for us. And through her vision she set up this office for women, which—you know, another person I think a lot of us are thankful is Liz Travis, who was the first appointed—I think it’s associate vice president of that office, who then took on the charge of actually setting up a lot of programs and setting up, you know, organizing women. We have the leadership, the women leadership, we meet monthly just to get together and talk and figure out where we are, what kind of things could we do better.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
]Is that a formal committee or—
Carmen Escalante, MD:
No, it’s something Liz—we meet at—oh, what’s the name of the place down the street? Yappa, that Liz set up for dinner. It’s mostly chairs of departments or divisions. There’s only Genie Kleinerman [oral history interview], a division head, but—and, you know, not all of us can always come. Usually there’s about ten, you know, depending on the month. And kind of strategize and have dinner and just enjoy each other, and I think we all appreciate it and look forward to it. We’re all busy here, but we all care. We care about what happens after us, how can we make the same commitment that Margaret made to us when she was in a position that allowed her to make changes that could affect us, and kind of thinking about how we as chairs of departments or other leadership positions can do the same for the next generation and the younger faculty coming up.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, people talk about the pipeline problem, who’s going to take over and how do you groom that next pool of individuals.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Right. Because, you know, you don’t want lose traction, you don’t want to lose ground. And I think there’s still lots that can be done. At this point, there’s still on the executive level, after Margaret left, no comparable woman leader at that level, but as I said, there are more women department chairs, and so I think we have to try to make our own opportunities as much as we can.Liz has focused us on making sure we nominate women for various awards and recognitions, both internally and externally. You know, we’re all busy, but if we don’t take the time to acknowledge and nominate women that have achieved for various awards, then it’s part our fault, too, and I think it’s important. Even before, when I was younger, in college, medical school, I always felt strongly that women needed to stand up for themself and we can do whatever we want. We’re capable. And I have a son and two daughters, but the same with my daughters, I hope that they don’t see anything as a limitation because they’re women as they grow up and do whatever they want.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What are your children’s names?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
My two daughters, Isabella and Carolina, are my two girls, and my son is Damaso.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
How do you spell that?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
D-a-m-a-s-o.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay. And your husband’s name?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Ramon, R-a-m-o-n.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And is that Escalante?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Noyola, N-o-y-o-l-a. No, I kept my name. (laughs)
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. I say, you know, I’m an old-fashioned girl. I kept my name. (laughs)
Carmen Escalante, MD:
I’ve had it too long. [unclear]. It’s mine.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, yeah. Well, we’re that generation.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Yeah.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What do you feel women bring to leadership? Do they bring a different style or perspective, in your view?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
You know, I definitely feel women—most women have a different style, a different perspective than men leaders. I think there is more of—and my men colleagues will probably get mad at me. (laughs) But I think more thought and caring into decisions. It’s not always like cut and dry. You know, this is generalizations, but we worry more about the consequences. I think we’re probably better planners and organizers. Why? I don’t know. I mean, it’s how to survive for many of us women that have multiple things going on personally and professionally. So you have to multitask, you have to be a good organizer to succeed here or anywhere else, you know. And I think it’s our connection with people. I mean, women generally have better interpersonal skills to connect with people than most men, if you read the literature, and from my own experiences. And so I think that’s additive, and I agree from literature and everything else that teams are much better when they’re integrated with men and women, and if we leave women off, then we’re losing a big resource that, you know, it’s the detriment of the organization.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What do you see, now that there are different generations of men and women in the MD Anderson ranks? I mean, certainly when you arrived, there was still an old guard—
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Yeah.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
—men and some women of a different generation raised much more traditionally, but we went through the sixties, Feminist Movement, all of that, and all of the changes that organizations had to go through to open up more to women. Do you see a difference with the younger generation?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
I think it’s—I don’t know. I have a lot of younger faculty in my department, especially women, and, you know, I think that it’s dependent on a lot of other things, as well as culture. Some were not raised in the U.S., some were, some from different ethnic groups, and I think all of those things factor into what they want as far as their careers and what’s most important. But I think more so family life is like the priority. Everyone loves their profession, but especially for the women that have children, that they’re juggling, but the priority is making sure their kids are doing well and try to do that so that they can also have a very successful career, whereas I think, you know, maybe thirty years ago, there were very few women in medicine because either they weren’t going to medical school or they were and they were staying home and raising kids, doing just that. Now I think there are more husbands that are more open to helping wives and some of the stay-home husbands, I mean, it’s not that common, but it still happens, whereas I think back in my parents’ generations, that probably never would have happened, never. And I think we’re all more accepting of kids—you know, the mother not being there all the time, that there’s either a nanny or they go to daycare or there’s other options. That’s much more common, and not that we don’t feel guilty at times from doing that, but it’s not like my parents where my mother stayed home with us and she was there 24/7 and helped us with our homework and was always there when we came home from school. For at least in our department, these women are working and they’re focused on a career, and they love their family and they want to be part of their family, and they want to see their kids grow up, and, you know, they’re doing it, they’re doing both of it.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What’s the effect of that? And I guess what I’m thinking of here is that certainly in the seventies and even in the eighties, the classic thing was, “Oh, you won’t go into a profession. You’re just going to get married and have a family.” So admitting that your family was important to you could be professional suicide in certain context. So I’m wondering now, like [unclear] a few decades, what is the institution—what’s the culture like here for faculty members who make that choice, that family is a priority?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
You know, I don’t think it’s like it used to be. I think it’s easier for the men because, you know, they can pop in and out at home much easier, and regardless of what we say, I still think the women have the primary responsibilities at home. I don’t think it means that if you have kids, if you’re a woman on faculty and you have kids, that you won’t be successful because you say, “Look, I have to leave at six o’clock.” And I’ve told my supervisor that before, you know, like early morning meetings, although I don’t think it was appreciated. But one time I brought it up because they wanted a seven-thirty or eight o’clock meeting, and I drop my kids at school, and the earliest you can do it is seven-thirty before—and then by the time I drop them off and get over here, it was a little after eight, you know, with traffic and things. And I said, “Well, you know, I have my kids to drop.”One of the people sitting around the table—because at that time I was the only woman chair—goes, “Well, can’t you just delegate that to somebody else, you know? Why do you have to do it?”I said, “Well, it’s my kids. That’s my choice to drop them off in the morning at school.” But, you know, they have wives to drop them off. That doesn’t affect them. So if they want to be here at six o’clock at the morning, they can. And, you know, you don’t see your kids all day, and it’s simply, “Can we move the meeting till fifteen minutes?” which they refused.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Really. Wow.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
And even now, I’ve had my supervisor make comments, “Oh, you can’t get Carmen here early to come to a meeting.” He made a comment to Liz Travis, because one day there was something early, it was a woman’s thing, and I agreed to do it. So I had to make a lot of changes at home so my husband could drop off my kid, because our kids go to different schools. So it’s hard when we—I take one group, he takes the other, my son. But when one of us is not there, we have to do both, so I have to make sure it’s okay with him because he’s got to do it a little earlier.And so it was important to me. I think we were going to talk at school or do something for women, and he saw us there. And later he made a comment to Liz in the elevator, “Oh, I don’t know what you did to get Carmen here that early.” And, you know, it was important for me, but it’s not like I can be here early all the time, because then, you know, I can’t—I feel it’s important for me to drop my kids off and wish them a good day before I come in.But I still think that that was not seen as a very good thing for me, because I wasn’t as flexible as being here when they wanted to start their meeting, so I was always late, or I try to get home for six, so that means, you know, I have to leave here around five-fifteen or five-twenty, because my housekeeper’s got to leave, and I know my kids are starting homework or should have started. And, you know, it’s important for me to be there for a few hours when they were younger—my youngest one still goes to bed at eight-thirty—you know, that you have a few hours with them before it’s time to put them to bed.But so I can’t do late meetings, you know, six o’clock or five-thirty, because I really want to spend a few hours with my kids before, and I think that that’s not always seen as, “Well, you know, she’s just not flexible. She can’t do early meetings. She can’t do late meetings.” And that wasn’t probably a good thing for me. But on the other hand, I feel that I made the right choice. I’m here, I work very hard when I’m here, I’m a good multitasker and organizer, and I make the most of the nine, ten hours I’m here a day with what I have to do, and, you know, I get my stuff done. So I don’t think there should be issues about why can’t I be here for a seven o’clock meeting on a regular basis.And I think all of us in certain situations have had that. I think it’s more acceptable now, because even the younger generations are pushing back, even younger than I am now are more pushing back and saying, “Hey, I have a life outside of my job.” You know, this is not a nine-to-five job, we all recognize that, and we do what we have to do, but on the other hand, we want some control of the hours so that we can make a difference in our kids’—in our family’s life as well, because, you know, this place will continue to go on long after we retire or leave, and this place won’t be here when we’re old and need someone around us. Our families will, but this place won’t. So, you know, I love my work, I like what I do, but I’m not married to the building or to the institution, and one day—you know, I guess I don’t want to sit here and die in my office at old age because I don’t have any other life, you know.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Thanks. Is there anything else you wanted to say about kind of changes for women since you’ve come?
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Well, I think there’s been a lot of good things like the change of the tenure clock, that you can take a year off when you have a child or adopt a child. That was with Liz’s persistence in pushing that. There’s now, I saw, a younger group of women starting a faculty moms’ group, you know, to share, share thoughts, share [unclear], share things. You know, I think it’s very supportive and helpful for people to get together and just talk about things and learn from others. “Oh, you do that that way? That’s better.” And just knowing that other people are facing the same challenges that you are. So I think all of that is good. You know, hopefully as time goes on, there will be more women leaders in the institution. You know, now, I think, the medical school classes are at least half women, but in academic institutions, most of the women are in the lower ranks, assistant professors. We can talk about that forever, but, you know, whether women drop out because they make the choice with families or so forth, but we have to persist, we have to support each other, and we have to make sure that we’re treated as equally as our male colleagues and are recognized that we have a lot to offer, similar to the men.And I’m hopeful that, you know, when my daughters’ classmates and my daughter—they go to an all-girls school—graduate and go to college or whatever profession they want, that some of this will have even continued to advance so that one day maybe there’s not even a big issue, although I wonder about that. (laughs) But that should be our goal.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Cultural changes are really slow, really slow.
Carmen Escalante, MD:
Yes, definitely.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
But, yeah, that is the goal.
Recommended Citation
Escalante, Carmen MD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 20: Work on Significant Committees: Disaster Committee; Transfusion Committee; Medical Practice Committee" (2014). Interview Chapters. 778.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/778
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