Chapter 09: Working through Challenges for Women at MD Anderson
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Description
In this chapter, Dr. Spitz talks about challenges and changes for women faculty at MD Anderson. She recalls the salary review spearheaded by Elizabeth Travis and others and changes that came from that initiative. She notes that she herself was the first female MD to become a department chair. She also recalls the dinner for senior women at which she receive the Faculty Alumnus Award. She talks about contributing an essay to the book about senior women, Legends and Legacies and shares her views about the group photo of the contributors in eveningwear.
Identifier
SpitzM_02_20161101_C09
Publication Date
11-1-2016
Publisher
The Historical Resources Center, Research Medical Library, The University of Texas Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Margaret Spitz, MD, Oral History Interview, November 01, 2016
Keywords
Obstacles, Challenges, Barriers; Experiences Related to Gender, Race, Ethnicity; Building/Transforming the Institution; Mentoring; On Mentoring; Diversity at MD Anderson; Personal Background
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - Obstacles, Challenges, Barriers; Experiences Related to Gender, Race, Ethnicity; Building/Transforming the Institution; Mentoring; On Mentoring; Diversity at MD Anderson; Personal Background
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Do you see differences between young men coming up, young women coming up? And—
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Yes. Well, of course, it’s a much harder challenge for women because many of them are in their reproductive age and they want to have children, and some of them are dealing with—they’re the sandwich generation; they have children and they have elderly parents to contend with. And it’s a great challenge. And I always say you have to establish your priorities at each phase of your life. And the priorities change as the circumstances of your life change. And if you stick with your priorities, you will never have difficulties. And you can have everything, but not just at the same time. So those are some of the messages I’ve given women. But I’ve also said, you know, you can always write a grant, but you can never revisit your child’s first steps or their first soccer game. And at the end of their careers, nobody ever says, “I wish I’d worked harder.” But they do say, “I wish I’d spent more time with my family.” So you have to be very careful, and you have to make wise choices all along the way.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now I remember the last time we spoke, you talked about making the very conscious decision to keep your family a very important part of your life.
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Yes. Well, I worked part-time for quite a long time, until I felt my children were ready to care for themselves. And I’ve never felt guilty about my children, and I’m happy that I’ve nev— but I know it’s a tough challenge. And I was luckier than most.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now tell me about the situation for you and for other women at MD Anderson when you first came, because I’d like to get a picture—it was an interesting time.
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Yes. Well, when I first came, I remember all the rules and regulations were written as if all the faculty were men, and everything was, “his.” And we had to change that. Then there was a Faculty Wife’s Association, as if all the faculty were men. But that eventually got changed to Faculty Spouse’s Organization, which was a good change. And I think it was in the beginning very male-dominated, the faculty. But there were a few senior women, and among them was Liz Travis [oral history interview] and Margaret Kripke [oral history interview]. And I remember that the three of us were asked to help women’s faculty issues, and we did a review of the salaries. And we actually found that there were inequities in salaries between men and women, I think particularly in the clinical arenas. And the institution adjusted the faculty salaries accordingly, and that was very gratifying.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Was that controversial?
Margaret Spitz, MD:
No, I don’t think so. Well, if it was, I certainly didn’t hear about it. And then we developed a plan for freezing tenure track. And this was for women who were planning to have babies, or maybe they were caring for a sick parent, and so on. And this was an approach that could only be done prospectively. You couldn’t look back and say, “Oh, I had a terrible year. I didn’t have any grants, and I’ve had very few publications. Let me ask for a tenure freeze.” It had to be prospectively. And in fact, the very first person who applied for one, received a freeze, was a male faculty. I think he was going to the Iraq War or something, but he got a tenure track freeze. And I think it was a very sane and humane law. And I’m sure it’s still ongoing now.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Many times when there are programs like that put into the institution, people who take advantage of them are considered kind of not serious about their work. Did you find that there was conversation about that? That it required—
Margaret Spitz, MD:
No, I never heard about that. I’m sure some people did think that. But of course, MD Anderson is unique. It was one of the first Cancer Centers to appoint Liz Travis as a vice president for women’s faculty issues. And that was really far-seeing. And we did surveys. I think she’s done a fantastic job. She was always nominating women to be on committees, and so on. And I remember once I was asked to be on some committee, and I thought to myself, I know I’m only being asked because I’m a woman. Should I do it, or shouldn’t I? And then I thought, no, I must do it to show that they put me on for the wrong reasons. And I did it.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Why was it the wrong reasons?
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Well, the reason that they put me on, I felt, was only because I was a woman. Not because I was the right person for the committee membership.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Interesting. And so you didn’t feel you could contribute adequately?
Margaret Spitz, MD:
So I went on the committee, and I felt that I showed them that not only was I a woman, but I was equal to the task.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, interesting. Okay. Very interesting. Okay. Okay, what are some changes that you saw? Because you were at the institution almost 20 years.
Margaret Spitz, MD:
No, it was longer than that.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Longer than that.
Margaret Spitz, MD:
But don’t forget, for many of those years, I was very under the radar and pretty junior, and not really aware of the workings of the senior [leadership]. So it was only in the last few years that I was much more aware of what was going on.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, what did you observe, though, in terms of changes for women? What were the changes that have occurred at the institution over the course of your tenure there?
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Well, at the beginning, there were very few women in senior positions. I think Margaret Kripke was the first department chair. And Ellen Gritz [oral history interview]was, I think, the second. And I think I was the third. And I was the first MD to be a department chair. Now, of course, there are many department chairs. And in fact, what really brought this home to me, I received the Faculty—what is it called? After one has retired from MD Anderson, then there’s a—for a certain number of years, there’s an award that’s given to—the [Distinguished] Faculty Alumnus [Award]. I received that this year.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh!
Margaret Spitz, MD:
And among perhaps the most exciting part of that award was a luncheon that was held for senior women faculty. And it was—I thought there would be maybe three or four women, but the room was full. There must have been over 20 women there. It was a really gratifying experience to know how many senior faculty women there were. And then, of course, you know the book that Liz created, Legends—
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Legends and Legacies.
Margaret Spitz, MD:
—and Legacies. And that gorgeous photo.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
That was such—
Margaret Spitz, MD:
That was Photoshopped, but it was a fantastic picture. I have it hanging in my home.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
It’s all of the pictures of all the women in cocktail dresses and eveningwear, and stuff.
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Yes.
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, you can (inaudible).
Margaret Spitz, MD:
And actually, I was opposed to that. I felt that it should show initially, but I realized I was wrong. I felt that the women should be in their workday clothes, because we’re not trying to glorify women’s looks and graces. But in fact, I was wrong, because it’s a magnificent picture. And actually, I always tell a story. I told it last night to someone. I was on the study section for quite a long time, and then I rotated off, as one does. And I was at a scientific meeting, and one of the men said, “Oh, we’ve missed you so much on the study section.” And I thought, how wonderful, he’s going to say, “We miss your insightful reviews.” But he said, “No,” he said, “You always wore such bright, gorgeous colors. We miss the colors.” And I was devastated! So that ties in with what clothes one wears, right?
T. A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, hopefully he also missed your insightful—
Margaret Spitz, MD:
Well, he didn’t say that. (laughter) Anyway—
Recommended Citation
Spitz, Margaret R. MD and Rosolowksi, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 09: Working through Challenges for Women at MD Anderson" (2016). Interview Chapters. 1593.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1593
Conditions Governing Access
Open
