Chapter 01: Setting Sights High in Chemistry and Concerns about the Draft
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Description
Dr. Brock begins this chapter by sketching his upbringing in modest family and discussing the influence of his father, a hard worker with strong ethics. He talks about why he began to focus on science and discusses the influence of a brother in law who encouraged him to apply to top graduate schools to further his education. [B.S. Microbiology, Ohio State University, 1962-1967; PhD, Chemistry, Yale University Graduate School, conferred 1976]. He explains how his graduate education was intertwined with his concern to not fight in the Vietnam War; he eventually got a deferment and also aged out of the draft.
Identifier
BrockW_01_20181204_C01
Publication Date
12-4-2018
Publisher
The Making Cancer History® Voices Oral History Collection, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
William Brock, PhD, Oral History Interview, December 04, 2018
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - Educational Path; Personal Background; Ethics; Inspirations to Practice Science/Medicine; Influences from People and Life Experiences; Military Experience; Character, Values, Beliefs, Talents
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay, our counter is moving, and I’m saying for the record that the time is about two minutes after 11:00 on the fourth of December, 2018. And I am in the Ombuds Office in the Duncan Building on the main campus of MD Anderson, interviewing Dr. Bill Brock. And you prefer Bill to William, is that true, or...? Bill Brock, PhD I use William when I’m signing my name.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
When you’re signing your name. [laughter] Bill Brock, PhD But I prefer people address me as Bill, yes.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay, Dr. Bill Brock, who was Head of the Ombuds Office for a number of years. And so I wanted to say thanks for taking the time today. Bill Brock, PhD You’re welcome. [laughs]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And I guess a couple other details, and we’ll get to some of these, that you actually had come to MD Anderson in 1978. That’s correct? Is...? Bill Brock, PhD No, 1976.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Nineteen seventy-six, okay. Bill Brock, PhD I started as a faculty member in 1978.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay, but you were a Fellow? Bill Brock, PhD Yes, I was a postdoc here, starting in July of 1976, with Dr. Marvin Meistrich [oral history interview].
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, yeah, okay. I interviewed Dr. Meistrich. And I noticed on your publications list—I got a publications list—that you’d worked with him— Bill Brock, PhD Yes.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
—on various projects, too. Okay, cool. And then, when you became faculty, it was in the Division of Radiation Oncology, in the section of Experimental Radiation Oncology, correct? Bill Brock, PhD That’s correct.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. And then in two— Bill Brock, PhD The department actually had a different name back then.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, it did? Bill Brock, PhD Yes, they changed it. Used to be Experimental Radiotherapy. [ ] And it is now [Experimental Radiation Oncology].
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay. And, actually, I looked on the— Bill Brock, PhD ERT was how we referred to it.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, that’s funny. [laughs] Bill Brock, PhD Now it’s ERO. [laughs]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
ERO. Well, actually, I went on the Department website and saw that Experimental Radiation Oncology as a name has actually been sunsetted, so I don’t know what they’re calling it now. That’s to be determined, I guess. It says “NA” after Experimental Radiation Oncology. [laughs] Bill Brock, PhD That’s interesting.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Isn’t that crazy? Bill Brock, PhD Yes.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So, in this, another important date, in 2000, it was when you established the Faculty Ombuds Office, and then we will tell the story from there. I think so. Bill Brock, PhD Okay. [My main reason for doing this interview is to talk about the Ombuds Office, its origin, development and current status.]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. But let me just start kind of in the traditional place that I start, which is let me ask you where you were born, and when, and tell me a little bit about your family background. Bill Brock, PhD Oh. Well, I was born on November 21st, 1944, in Akron, Ohio, where I grew up, in Akron, Ohio. [ ] [I have three siblings.]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, what did your parents do, and...? Bill Brock, PhD Okay. Well, my mother didn’t work until we had all graduated from college. My father was a businessman, in sales. He started out as a milkman for the Borden Company [ ]. He was born in 1910. [ ] He was born in San Angelo, Texas.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay. And what were your parents’ names? Bill Brock, PhD My dad’s name was William, but a different middle name; Conerly was his middle name.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What is it? Bill Brock, PhD Conerly. C-O-N-E-R-L-Y is the way he spelled it.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And your mother’s name? Bill Brock, PhD Ramona Virginia [Brock]. Her maiden name was Anderson, spelled like MD Anderson, but of course it was Brock after she got married. [ ] My dad was born in San Angelo. His mother had tuberculosis, and she needed to move out to dry climate in order to help her recover from the tuberculosis. [ ] That was 1910 when he was born. In 1917, the family moved back to [their home in Jackson,] Mississippi. [ ]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow, wow. Bill Brock, PhD And he was proud to be a Texan. [ ] [laughter]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, okay, yeah. It’s— Bill Brock, PhD [After I moved to Texas in 1976, I could] just say, “Oh, my dad’s from Texas.” It made me halfway acceptable [to “real” Texans].
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s right, yeah, because that’s a big transition, that North/South. So what did your dad end up doing? You said he was a businessman. Bill Brock, PhD So he ended up being the general manager of the Borden Company in Akron, Ohio. My father was an extremely hard worker, set goals, and he usually achieved them. So he ended up doing very well for himself, and for his family. Good man.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So, sounds like he had a big impact on you when you were growing up. Bill Brock, PhD Yeah he was. [ ] [He was my most important mentor.]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So you said some of them was hard work. Were there some other things that you learned from your dad? Bill Brock, PhD [ ] He was an ethical, honest person who didn’t ever want to treat anyone wrong [and he always did what he said he would do.] [ ]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Can you think of an example that really brought that home for you when you were young? Bill Brock, PhD Well, I remember one thing that always comes to mind is—so he became the boss, right? And so he had all these other people working for him who did the labor. And I grew up thinking, well, he’s the boss, so he’s in a more important position, but the way he treated the people he worked with was wonderful. [ ] And one time I remember going out on a boat ride with my dad, and we stopped at this new home built by one of his employees. We went into the house and took a tour of it. We lived in a modest home. My dad didn’t like to spend money very much, and he was very frugal, because he went through the Depression. And this house was really nice, and I remember thinking, look at the house we live in and look at the palace this guy is living in, and my dad’s a boss. It just doesn’t make sense. As we were leaving my dad looked at him and shook his hand and said, “You have a nice house. You really deserve it, you’ve worked hard and earned it.” And that was a lesson I didn’t forget. [ ] He didn’t know how to be jealous of someone else, [he was always proud of his friends’ accomplishments]. That [may not seem like much but it made an important impact on me. There were many] examples like that.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s a wonderful story. Yeah. Bill Brock, PhD It’s amazing how something that seems so trivial [and I’m sure he wouldn’t remember it, but he set a powerful example.]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. So as you were growing up, and in school, how did you find yourself coming together as a person? What were your interests, and how did you start learning what you were good at and interested in? Bill Brock, PhD [ ] [When I was young,] I was always building things. I think I probably would have gone into some electrical engineering major if I’d have been better at math, but my math background wasn’t really strong enough for [for the school of engineering] [ ] so I majored in biology.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay, okay. Bill Brock, PhD Yeah.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What about other things that you were doing in— Bill Brock, PhD Let me add to that a little bit.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, sure, I’m sorry. Bill Brock, PhD My sister, who’s eight years older than me, was married to an extremely brilliant man who ended up becoming a very well-known physician, a gynecologist. He was a very strong motivator for me, as far as choosing science and setting goals [ ]. He was one of my most important mentors. My father was probably the most important, but he was my academic career mentor.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And your sister’s name, and her husband’s name? Bill Brock, PhD Her name is Betty Ann. It is Betty Ann Levitin now, L-E-V-I-T... Wait. L-E-V-I-T-E-N, or T-I-N.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And her husband’s...? Bill Brock, PhD Her husband’s name is Leon Speroff, S-P-E-R-O-F-F. And they’re divorced. [ ]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s cool. Bill Brock, PhD Yeah.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So how did he mentor you with those...? I mean, at what age did he start becoming important to you? Bill Brock, PhD [ ] [It started when I was in] high school. He helped me set goals, and he helped me set goals that were goals that [were more ambitious than I would have set alone].
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Like what? Bill Brock, PhD And... Well, graduate school, mainly. [ ] He encouraged me to apply to Yale Graduate School, which had a program [ ] [where I got a degree in] biology. [ ]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s very cool. Bill Brock, PhD Yeah.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So you grew up in Akron, so you went to your high school years in Akron, as well. Bill Brock, PhD Yes, I did.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. And then to college? Where did you go— Bill Brock, PhD I went to Ohio State University.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. And when did you start and finish? Bill Brock, PhD I started in 1962, and I finished in—with a bachelor’s degree in Microbiology ’67, and got a second degree in Education in ’68.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. And your first degree was in bio? Bill Brock, PhD Yeah, microbiology was my major.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And then education. How come you did the second in education? Bill Brock, PhD [I taught school to stay out of the] Vietnam War.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, tell me about that. Bill Brock, PhD Well, if you taught, okay, you got a deferment, and I was definitely very antiwar, like most kids in college. So I had attitudes that nowadays I’m not so proud of them, right? But back then it was a terrible war, and... So I got a degree. It didn’t take long to get the second degree, and so I taught school.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And it was at what level? Bill Brock, PhD High school, chemistry.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
How did you like teaching? Bill Brock, PhD I liked it. I liked it a lot. I wasn’t as good at it as I thought I’d be. It’s hard, and you have to teach a few years in order to get really good at it. I did it only for two years, because teacher deferments were taken away at that time. [Redacted]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
How did that affect you? I mean, when you look back, the teaching, the war, [redacted] did that kind of change you in certain ways, or shape decisions you made? Bill Brock, PhD Oh, it definitely shaped decisions. It shaped every decision. [ ] I [was reclassified] 1-A for the draft and was told to report for a physical. And so I went down to the Board, and [was shocked to find some of my high school] students, (pause) with suitcases [ready to leave for basic training. I was only there for a physical and then I was going home.] [ ] I couldn’t believe my students [were on their way to the war.]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And why did...? I mean, why did that affect you so much, just kind of seeing them? Bill Brock, PhD Oh, I just—I felt guilty, in a sense. I just felt so sorry for them, and I knew them, and I knew they were just young kids, and some of them [may not have come back].
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Going to die, yeah. Bill Brock, PhD [ ]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Now, and was this ’68? I’m sorry, I glitched on the date there. Sixty-seven? Sixty-eight? Bill Brock, PhD Oh, I’d say that was probably about 1970.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, 1970, okay. Bill Brock, PhD Yeah, yeah. Because I got out of school in ’68, taught, so it was probably about 1970, I would guess, somewhere around there.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, were you shipped overseas? [Redacted] Bill Brock, PhD [ ] Finally President Nixon did one of the few things that I approved of: he ruled that anybody who is 26 years or older is a potential threat to their fellow soldiers. [ ] I turned 26 before I was drafted.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So you aged out. [laughs] Bill Brock, PhD Aged out. [The president’s decision seemed like] a miracle. [ ]. [Redacted]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
[Redacted] So what was the next step? You had your brother-in-law telling you to mail in—helping you understand what your next step would be. So tell me about getting into graduate school at Yale.
Recommended Citation
Brock, William A. PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 01: Setting Sights High in Chemistry and Concerns about the Draft" (2018). Interview Chapters. 487.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/487
Conditions Governing Access
Redacted
