Chapter 08: Initiatives to Foreground Minority Populations and Diversity
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Description
Dr. Jones reviews several of the initiatives he took on to bring minority populations into the conversation about cancer at MD Anderson. He first talks about the Center for Minority Research and Health, which created a holistic approach to doing research. Next he talks about starting the Biennial Symposium Series on "˜Minorities, the Medically Underserved and Cancer' (begun in 1987). He explains that the Biennial figured into a plan to change how MD Anderson addressed minority health issues. Dr. Jones then mentions establishing the National Minority Cancer Awareness Week: he explains why this was needed. Dr. Jones tells the history of how the Biennial was established, beginning in 1985 when the NCI began looking at cancer disparities. He talks about the challenges securing funding, noting MD Anderson's lack of support for this initiative and for him.
Identifier
JonesLA_02_20140116_C08
Publication Date
1-16-2014
Publisher
The Making Cancer History® Voices Oral History Collection, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Lovell A. Jones, PhD, Oral History Interview, January 16, 2014
Topics Covered
The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center - Building the Institution; Building/Transforming the Institution; Professional Path; Obstacles, Challenges; Institutional Politics; Controversy; Experiences re: Gender, Race, Ethnicity; Experiences of Injustice, Bias; Gender, Race, Ethnicity, Religion; Critical Perspectives on MD Anderson; The Researcher; Overview; Definitions, Explanations, Translations
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Now, there are some other things I wanted to ask you about, but since we're talking about the Center, maybe you could tell me the story of how that got established, since it seems like this particular study is so reliant on the Center. So we're talking about the Center for Minority-
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Center for Research and Minority Health.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Right.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
It came about in discussions I'd had with both political leaders as well as individuals in the community, the idea of the kind of holistic approach to doing research as opposed to having it compartmentalized, of having both Education, that community component, research component, administration, all housed in Biostatistics, just that group, all housed under one umbrella so that everyone on a daily or semi-daily or weekly, biweekly basis, interacted with each other. Because I often say, and I've said this a number of times, that a person's experience has a direct bearing on solutions, and if you have stat groups over here that really aren't integrally involved in the day-to-day operations, all they get is the data, then they see the data in a certain way as opposed to being integrally involved in the process. The community group sees things in a certain way, and the research guys see certain things, but when they interact, it changes their perspective in terms of approach, value, how communities are looked at. And having started the biennial and seeing the benefits of groups together-in fact, when I started the biennial, it came about because I was looking at three ways of addressing the issue of inequities and disparities, and that is education, policy, and research, all overlapping, and then ultimately collaboration in the Center. And the idea that you need to to educated a group first that there is a problem and that there are solutions to the problem, we just have to figure out how to get to those solutions. Because if you don't do that first and you just start policy changes in research, the end result is you're not going to have any changes. You have a lot of papers. I remember at a meeting I was at where a Native American colleague got up. He was invited to give a major address, and he only talked for about ten minutes, and he got up and he started identifying individuals in the audience, individuals that he'd known over decades, who he had met as students, fellows, young assistant professors, some who were now in prominent positions, and he identified them and where they started and where their prominent positions are at that point in time. And then he closed the meeting by saying, "My people are still dying," and said that. To me, that was one of the most profound speeches I've heard, short but very profound, which basically said, "You've come in, you've published papers, you got grants, but really nothing has changed."
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah, there's that disconnect between discovery and delivery.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Right. So I thought about it and had been thinking about it for a while, and figured that both in terms of educating the population, but educating researchers, educating staff, educating the whole group so we're basically on the same page, and then policy with regards to changing the way that we look at how to fund things and that sort of thing, and then the research that's done. So I ended up with the first leg of that three-legged stool was the Biennial Symposium Series, really to bring people together. And when I first proposed it here and went to Conference Services talking about CMUs [phonetic], CEUs, Continuing Education Units, and those sorts of things, they asked me, they said, "Well, which group are you focusing on?" I said, "I'm focused on everyone." And they said, "Everyone?" And I said, "Yeah, everyone." They said, "Everyone? All physicians?" "No. Everyone." They said, "Well, what's the target audience?" I said, "Americans." They said, "No, no, no, no, no. You've got to be physicians or nurses or some healthcare professionals. Are you just talking to the community? Are you talking to just legislators? But you've got to have a target audience." And I said, "My target audience are Americans." "Well, you're going to have a meeting that's going to be disjointed. People are not going to understand. Either they're going to be talked over or they're going to be talked down to, and you'll have a very dissatisfied group." And I said, "Well, I'll just tell them why don't they talk to the group in the same manner that you go to talk to a congressman, because you have to put it in the language that's not over his head, not below him as well." And I said, "If everybody talked along that same way, I guess everybody will understand." "Well, you know, Dr. Jones, we're going to work with you, but this is not going to be successful. There's going to be a lot [unclear], and the people who will give you the money to get this started are going to lose their money." And I said, "Well, we'll see." Interesting enough, I owe a lot to-for the meeting to get started-to J Freireich [Oral History Interview] . I had gotten to know him semi well. And I had put in an application to the American Cancer Society to help fund the meeting. Actually, I put it in to NCI as well and a few other organizations, American Cancer Society-like groups. And my application came back unread. And I was walking down the hallway, and J saw me very disgruntled, and he said, "Lovell, what's the problem?" I said, "Well, J, I submitted an application like you and Dr. LeMaistre said I should do, and it came back unread, basically." He says, "What?" He says, "Come in here." He says, "Sit there." I said, "Okay." He says, "I don't want you complaining about being discriminated against and this and that. I'm going to call them up and I'm going to make them give you the money so that when you fail, you won't have any excuses." (laughter) I said, "Fine." So he called up, and I got the money.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow. Wow.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
And so I invited him to be one of the opening speakers. (laughs)
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
That's very cool. That's very cool. I mean, we're talking about the biennial now, and that, just for the record, that was begun in '88, correct?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Eighty-seven, April. In fact, it was the anchor for-you asked how the Center got-
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. And we needed to back up.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
As part of the biennial, I figured everybody had a week, so Minority Health needed a week or cancer needed a week. I had met Mervyn Dynally when I lived in California and got to know him, had met Lloyd Benson through other efforts, and so I approached both of them. At the time, Mervyn Dynally served on the Postal Committee, and that committee, I don't know if it's still in existence, but that committee oversaw proclamations. It was the one that made recommendations, wrote the laws, sent it up to Congress. And I never forget, he says, "Well, you know, Dr. Jones, I'm going to have one of my staff work with you, and we're going to draft legislation." I called him and I talked to his staff and had to talk him. "First," I said, "I just want a date." He said, "Dates. We don't do dates." (Rosolowski laughs.) I said, "Okay." And he said, "All we do is weeks." I said, "Well, okay. We'll do a week." And he says, "Well, what do you want the week to be?" And I said, "Hmm. National Minority Cancer Awareness Week." He said, "Hmm. Okay. And why?" And I told him the reasons why. And he said, "Sounds good."
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And what did you tell him?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Well, I told him about the gaps, the lack of attention, lack of efforts that I had seen. And the reason why the biennial had started was the previous year I was serving on a Review Committee at the National Institute for General Medical Sciences. That's at National Institutes of Health. And I was privy to this move that started in '84, '85, by NCI to look at the cancer disparities that were taking place in minority populations, primarily African Americans and other minorities, as the book they put out said. And they went around the country and they hired this marketing firm to bring attention, and as I'm thinking about it, it's almost like Juneteenth, which is, as you may not know, there was a delay in Texas finding out that slavery-the slaves had been freed. So that-
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
I didn't know that.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
So that's the reason of Juneteenth, that's the date they found out in Galveston that they had been freed. So it had been delayed it a while. So as I'm thinking about this, it's like the marketing firm had gone around the country and had a big gala in Cobo Hall with Aretha Franklin and a lot of stars, and they did this. But I also noticed that none of the Cancer Centers highlighted the issue, that it was like [unclear], and there was a small back-page story in, I think, the Houston Chronicle about the passage of this. So I kept walking the hallways, and [unclear] was making the joke, I said, "I see National Dairy Week, National Nurses Week. I don't see any proclamation about this effort." So I went to the woman that-Barbara Bynum, who was one of the chief architects of this at NIH, and I knew how many meetings of [unclear] had been put to this. And her husband was the staffer for the committee I was on, Elwood [phonetic], and so I got Elwood to arrange for me to meet with Barbara. And I said, "You know, Anderson, I didn't see anything. In fact, I didn't see any in other Cancer Centers about this. It's like it's nonexistent." I said, "So I'd like to do something, and I'd like you to give me some money to do something. And she said, "Well, I can't give you any money, but I'm in favor of you doing something." (laughter) So that stimulated the biennial in that, fortunately, as a student and as a fellow, as I'd mentioned, my mentors had introduced me to a lot of important people, and so I used that to-Vince DeVita, who was head of NCI at the time, who I still interact with, approached him, approached a number of other people and said, "This is what I want to do." And they said, "Well, do it."
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So what was the mission of the biennial? And it's proper title, the Biennial-
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
It's gone through-the original title was the Biennial Symposium on Minorities and Cancer, and then it metamorphed to the Biennial Symposium on Minorities, the Economically Disadvantaged, and Cancer. And then it metamorphed into the Biennial Symposium on Minorities, the Medically Underserved, and Cancer. And then on the twenty-fifth anniversary, it metamorphed to the Biennial Symposium on Minorities and Medically Underserved and Health Equity, and with basically the same theme: the idea of bringing a whole variety of people together. The uniqueness of the last one was it was held over the days the Supreme Court released the decision about the Affordable Care Act, and, in fact, we piped in to the meeting President Obama's response to that, to that decision, which was an interesting picture of him speaking and in audience were about a thousand people from diverse backgrounds.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, when you held the first Biennial Symposium, who at the institution was involved with that?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Conference Services.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So was it held here?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
It was held at the Westin Galleria, Westin Oaks, Westin Galleria. Interesting enough, when I signed the contract for the Conference Service-I don't think they ever do that again; I don't think they will-I signed the contract with no money.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Wow.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
So it was an interesting period of time. (laughs) In fact, when the ACS turned me down, it was like, "Okay. How am I going to pay for this thing?" Because I had already lined up people to come and the hotel was already lined up for the meeting.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So where did the funding come from?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
It came from ACS gave money, and then NCI gave money, and Coleman [phonetic] gave money, so those were the three main supporters, and then from the registration fees.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, what was the reaction in the institution and in the community to you creating this initiative?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Community, a lot of positive reaction to it because it was the first time that they felt engaged and involved. Institution was not that. In fact, one of the things that Mickey LeMaistre had said to me, oh, a couple years ago when we were at the C-Change meeting, which used to be the National Dialogue on Cancer, we were sitting next to each other going to one of the events, and he turned and he said, "You know, one of the things I regret as president is that I didn't support you more. I just didn't see the vision, and I see it now." Because I think when we began to plan the second biennial, the institution did basically everything to try and dissuade me from not doing it, and I said, "Well, it's a biennial, so the first biennial means that there will be a second. It didn't say "˜symposium.' It said "˜biennial, first biennial.'" So we didn't get a lot of support. The biggest support I got was from the National Institute for General Medical Sciences, which was interesting, since it's not a disease-specific institute, and they put up a good bit of the money. We did it on a shoestring budget. The event was held here at MD Anderson. All the meetings were held here at Anderson. And then the interesting thing was we booked the Merritt Medical Center, that ballroom, for the LaSalle D. Leffall Award. And two days-I think it was two days before the meeting, because we had separated it from the meeting because we didn't have money to really underwrite it the way that we needed to underwrite it, and so we made it-that was the first and only time we've ever done that-you could register for the meeting, but you didn't have to register for the banquet, so it was separate. We had three people register.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, my gosh.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
And I sent a note to Dr. LeMaistre and I said, "You know, we're honoring the new Secretary of Health and Human Services at this banquet, who has already confirmed and is flying in. We only have three people."
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
A serious embarrassment. (laughs)
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
"This is a major problem." They bought 250 tickets and then advertised it, so we ended up with about 500 people-
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, wow.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
-at the banquet. But it took that little-and interesting enough, it was at a period of time that there was one of my disconnects with the institution, in that I didn't have an office here. I had lost-my office had been-well, I'd been moved out of my lab in an office I had in the back of the lab, because as the fire codes changed, it became a fire hazard. Couldn't be in the back of the lab. So I lost that space, couldn't be an office. I didn't lose the space, but it couldn't be an office. And there was no other place for me, and so I was moved upstairs into a shared space with, actually, the gyn medical oncologist who was on the outs, and so it was the two of us in a shared office, which was funny because his secretary eventually ended up working for me for about fifteen years when he left the institution. So we shared the space. And then all of a sudden I was told that the department needed that space, but no provisions were made for me. And it used to be a running joke. Stuart Hofstadter, he used to head the Research Office here, he and I had become good friends, so he would see me in the hallway coming, and he would roll out a little desk and throw out an extension cord and say, "I have a space for you." (laughs) And so the other thing I made mention to Dr. LeMaistre, I said, "Well, you know, the Secretary's coming and he wants to visit me in my office, and my office is at home. So I'm taking him to my house for the visit." And within less than a week, week and a half, they renovated an office space for me, for me to meet the Secretary. (laughs) And that was the office space I kept until they built a new research building and a new research lab for me and new office space for that.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
I mean, how did you interpret that message?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
Oh, they wanted me to leave. (laughs)
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Mm-hmm. And your reaction was?
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
I'm not going anywhere. (laughs) I can work out of my house. That's fine. So that was one of the most memorable biennial galas, in that Harold Freeman came, the senior leadership actually came for the second one. [unclear] Kellogg's flew in on their private jet, and as they were giving the award to him, that was the only award, actually, the first and all the subsequent awards, on one piece from Tiffany's, because Kellogg's buys it, and that was the only award that they bought that was in two pieces, and the reason why it went back to one piece as Joe Stuart [phonetic], who was the senior vice president for Kellogg's, was giving the award to Lou Sullivan, the Secretary, it fell apart.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh, gosh.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
And it was Harold Freeman who caught it before it hit the floor and put it back together. So when Sullivan got up to make his acceptance speech, he says, "I can see the headlines. Secretary, before he even starts, his efforts fall apart," and see the picture on the front page. (laughter)
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Right, right.
Lovell A. Jones, PhD:
And everybody laughed. (laughs)
Recommended Citation
Jones, Lovell A. PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 08: Initiatives to Foreground Minority Populations and Diversity" (2014). Interview Chapters. 604.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/604
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