Chapter 01: From Veterinary Medicine to Cancer Research
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In this Segment, Dr. Fidler talks about his youth in Israel, the decision to study veterinary medicine that brought him to the United States in 1958, and the later events that inspired his shift from veterinary medicine to the study of cancer in humans. In 1961 he received his B.S. in Veterinary Medicine at Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, Oklahoma. Dr. Fidler was awarded his Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine from the same institution in ’63. He describes the difficulties of setting up a veterinary practice upon returning to Israel, where pet owners chose to terminate the lives of even beloved pets much more quickly than they do today. “I didn’t work so hard to become an executioner,” he recalls, explaining decisions that took him from private practice, to pharmaceutical research, and eventually back to the U.S. for a fellowship at the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary School, where his work on animals with cancer sparked his passion for problems of metastasis. After receiving a fellowship that enabled him to conduct basic research at the U. Penn. Medical School, he was advised to apply to the Department of Pathology, where many scientists were conducting research on metastasis. He received his Ph.D. in (human) Pathology from the University of Pennsylvania Medical School (Philadelphia) in ’70. There he framed the basic question that would govern his career: how cancer moves from the primary tumor via the circulatory system to create secondary tumors and ultimately the metastases that are still the primary killers of cancer patients. After receiving his Ph.D., he went to work in the Department of Pathology in the U. Pennsylvania Dental School with a Luther Terry Fellowship(late ’70).
Identifier
FidlerIJ_01_20110926_C01
Publication Date
9-26-2011
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD, Oral History Interview, September 26, 2011
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - Professional PathPersonal Background Inspirations to Practice Science/Medicine Military Experience Experiences re: Gender, Race, Ethnicity The History of Health Care, Patient Care The Researcher Understanding Cancer, the History of Science, Cancer Research
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
Disciplines
History of Science, Technology, and Medicine | Oncology | Oral History
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
All right. I’m Tacey Ann Rosolowski interviewing Dr. Isaiah Fidler at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. This interview is being conducted for the Making Cancer History Voices Oral History Project run by the Historical Resources Center at MD Anderson. Dr. Fidler is the director of the Metastasis Research Laboratory in the Department of Cancer Biology at MD Anderson. He holds the R. E. Bob Distinguished Chair in Cell Biology. And he is a professor in the Department of Cancer Biology. He has a joint appointment with the Department of Cancer Biology in the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. The interview is taking place in Dr. Fidler’s office in the Smith Research Building on the MD Anderson South Campus. This is the first of two planned interview sessions. Today is September 26th, 2011. The time is about ten after 2:00. Thank you for devoting your time to this interview and to the oral history project, Dr. Fidler. I wanted to start, as I mentioned earlier, with some general personal background, and then move into the history of your career. So please tell me where you were born and when and where you grew up.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
I wanted to start, as I mentioned earlier, with some general personal background, and then move into the history of your career. So please tell me where you were born and when and where you grew up.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
I was born in Jerusalem in 1936. I grew up in Jerusalem until I was 13. And then I left Jerusalem to go to high school, agricultural high school, in a small village in Israel, where I graduated in 1955. This was at the time the top high school in Israel, and difficult. But I had to grow up really rapidly, since I was not growing up at home.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
You were not growing up at home?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
No. I grew up in a dormitory in that high school, about three hours’ drive from Jerusalem.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What was the name of the town?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Pardess Hanna.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Pardess Hanna?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Pardess P-A-R-D-E-S-S Hanna H-A-N-N-A.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Thank you. I’m sorry. I read that your father died in the Israeli war of independence when you were 12.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
My father was killed.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
He was killed.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
In the army in 1948 in the war.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And you were 12 years old at the time?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
That’s right.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And I read somewhere that you said you felt that you assumed a role as the man of the house or head of the household. Is that correct?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
No, not exactly. But I became the big brother to my little brother. And had to take care of him. He still claims I take care of him, but it’s not true.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
It’s not true.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
He’s still my little brother.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Well, older siblings take care of their younger siblings.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Yeah, he was six years younger than me.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
That’s a big difference.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
But he was six years old at the time.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
When you went to the agricultural school, was that where you got a sense that you be involved in veterinary medicine?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Well, the truth is I wanted to become an MD. But at the time there was a sense in the land of Israel, the emerging country, that we have too many doctors and too many lawyers and we need to go back to the land. So my compromise was well, then I will study veterinary medicine. Which as you will see as we go on was -- I regret it. But in any event, I went -- when I graduated from high school, I then served mandatory two and a half years in the army.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
From ’55 to ’57?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
To ’57. And that time, I had received a fellowship, a full scholarship, to go to the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona by the Buffalo Oil Company of Tulsa.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What made you apply for that? How did that come about?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
I heard about it indirectly, and I applied, and my grades were good. My recommendations were high.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Why is it that you wanted to leave Israel for your higher education?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Because there was no veterinary school in Israel. You could either go to Europe or the United States. And United States always attracted me. What we heard and read. The land of opportunity. In the high school English was the second language. At home both my mother and father graduated from English colleges. So English was spoken constantly. English was not a problem for me. My accent turned out to be a problem. But not my ability to converse, to write, to read. In fact it was much higher, still is, than the average American. So going to the United States was easy. If I had to go to a school in Germany and learn German or to Sweden and learn Swedish it would have been something I did not want to do. Or Italy or Spain. So in any event I went to school in Arizona. And after six months I realized that there were a handful of -- just a handful of veterinary colleges in America. And I learned very quickly that even if I would get straight As at the University of Arizona, it would not get me into one of those restricted colleges. Because first, I was a foreign student, and second, I was out of state, and Arizona, especially Tucson, did not have a veterinary school, or even a medical school. And my first choice really was Davis, California to go to school, because other Israelis were there. But when I went for an interview, it became very clear that it would be extremely difficult for me to transfer from Arizona to University of California. So the Buffalo Oil of Tulsa, the scholarship followed me to Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, Oklahoma. A university that had a veterinary school. Not a medical school, but a veterinary school. And I was led to -- they explained to me that with very hard work and good grades I had a good chance of making it to the veterinary school. And indeed that was the case. I worked my butt off to get As and Bs. I think I had one B in my career. And it was not in English, it was in something else. Don’t ask me what, but it was -- I had like almost straight four point. Three nine something. And I was accepted to the veterinary school. And spent four years in Stillwater, Oklahoma going to veterinary school. And when I graduated I decided -- I was married and decided to return to Israel to practice veterinary medicine. But I was spoiled. Most veterinarian in Israel worked for an organization almost like a union. Like a health care organization for animals. But I was growing up in America, and I believed in independence, and opened a private clinic. And fortunately one of my uncles let me rent a small apartment for me in his building, so I could open a clinic. And I literally starved, because at that time pets were very rare. People did not make the money they make now. To have a pet was a great luxury. And at the time when an individual brought a sick animal to a veterinarian there were two questions. “What’s wrong with my animal, doc, and how much will it cost to cure the animal?” And quite a few with tears in their eyes said, “It’s too expensive, can you put the animal to sleep?” And I thought I didn’t go to school for four years and work so hard to become an executioner. So I accepted a half day job in a drug company. The son of the president of the company and I were in the army together, and that’s how you build relationship. And he said, “Why don’t you come work in our company?” “What are you going to do with a veterinarian?” He said, “We’re interested in developing veterinary pharmaceutical.” “Well, well. And maybe I can help.” So for several years I had my clinic and I had a half day job with the drug company that paid my rent basically. But I still was very frustrated because my education was not -- I was not working seriously as a veterinarian. Being married to an American lady, we returned to her hometown which is Philadelphia. And I applied for a position at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine. And although I graduated several years earlier I figured that I shouldn’t shoot for the stars. So I took a year of a fellowship. And fortunately -- and decided to really practice surgery at the University of Pennsylvania, which was at the time -- maybe still is, I don’t know -- but at the time was the most advanced veterinary school in America.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
I just want to interrupt you for a second because I’m curious. What were the pharmaceuticals that you were working on when you were back in Israel? And why didn’t that satisfy you?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Because I was not a pharmacist. And I wanted to practice with animal, not to help run, make sure that experiment done on animal by somebody were done correctly. At the time I was an idealist. And I’m glad I was. But any event, came back to Pennsylvania. And was very fortunate to work with a genius by the name of Robert Brodey B-R-O-D-E-Y. Robert Brodey specialized in surgical oncology. Not just surgery but literally just surgical oncology. And took me under his wing. And the fellowship ended up, and I joined the faculty. And really we only operated on animal that had cancer. Now there were three things that bothered me. The first is people brought sick -- we got only those dogs and cats the local veterinarian could not handle. Which means we got the tough cases. Second, the cost was not that major a problem, because at the university this was not a practice that had to -- it’s hard to explain. It was not a practice that had to be considered on income, but rather on advancing the field, etc. We had other sources to support surgery and animal care, etc. What was frustrating me the most was the fact that we were operating on animal that were dying of cancer anyhow. And they were not dying of the primary tumor. They were dying of tumor that spread -- by the time we saw the animals, a year or two after the local veterinarian resected the mammary cancer, resected the melanoma on the skin, the animals were dying from metastases, from cancer that spread to the lung, to the liver. At the time I didn’t realize it, to the brain. That was extremely frustrating because what do you do about cancer that spread? That’s the major cause of death from cancer at the time and still is. Individuals, human beings, don’t die of primary tumors by and large. We’re not talking about brain tumors. We’re talking about breast and lung and bone and kidney, colon cancer, prostate cancer. Surgeon can handle the primary tumor. But the major cause of death from cancer is when cancer spread to other site and goes in distant organs, in lymph nodes, in lung, in the bone, in the brain. And these growth are called metastases.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Now I read a note in one of the articles that the University of Pennsylvania Medical School -- you got your PhD in pathology there in 1970 --
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
I will get there in about three minutes.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
OK. Well, I just wanted to ask. I read that it was unusual in the ’50s that they were -- when they -- in the ’50s they were studying metastasis and invasion, it was quite unusual. And so I just was wondering --
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
That’s right.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
-- when you mentioned that, if you could address that.
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Yeah I will. So I always kept complaining, complaining, complaining. And finally the dean of the veterinary school, Dr. Marshak, Robert Marshak, called me to his office and told me he was tired of my complaining. If you were not recording it, I will tell you, he said, “Complain, stop bitching already.” But in any event complaining. And he told me that there was a very interesting program that I should apply to. And that was called the Luther Terry Fellowship. Luther Terry T-E-R-R-Y. Now Luther Terry, MD was the surgeon general at the time. And he was very very supportive and interested in MDs, DVMs, doctor of veterinary medicine, and DMD, doctors of dentistry, who had a clinical background to go back to research. The reverse in other words. He wanted more clinicians to do basic research. And you applied to the Luther Terry Fellowship and if you received it you can then go to graduate school, where your tuition is paid, plus at the time -- we don’t need to -- I will tell you that the Luther Terry Fellowship was probably twice more money to survive on than what I was getting at the veterinary school. So it was really attractive. But it was identical to MD, DMD and DVM. It did not discriminate. So maybe for MD it was not that high. But for me it certainly was.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Was it unusual not to discriminate between those three degrees?
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
Usually MDs receive more. Their salary is more competitive, higher than veterinarian. Even now at MD Anderson. But in any event. It depends. If you don’t like it you go to private practice, what does veterinarian make, and what does a cosmetic surgeon make? OK, think about it.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh sure but --
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
This guy Brown, OK, is a super billionaire. He works on a little hand. If he worked on the paw of a dog he wouldn’t be able to pay a lawyer to get -- never mind.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
I’m just thinking in the context of --
Isaiah J Fidler, DVM, PhD:
At the time it was unusual. But that was the greatness of the surgeon general. Now I don’t say that they gave just as many fellowships to veterinarians as they give to dentists and to MDs. I think it depended on the applicant. What is your background? What letter of recommendation do you have? What grade did you make in school? And are you going to graduate school because you’re a clinical failure? If you were a clinical failure, to send you to graduate school is an escape. Was not the case. You had to be a real success in the clinic. So the dean wrote a letter that I wish I had. I told the dean, “My mother would love you for that.” It was a really strong letter. And I received the Luther Terry. And in my memory as I said, I crossed the street and entered a new world. The medical school and veterinary. This is the medical school. This is the veterinary school. Just across the street. And I’ve not been to veterinary medicine ever since.
Recommended Citation
Fidler, Isaiah J. DVM, PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 01: From Veterinary Medicine to Cancer Research" (2011). Interview Chapters. 817.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/817
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