Chapter 02: A New Role at MD Anderson Reflects Changes in Health Care
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Description
Ms. Hay begins this chapter by explaining that she came to Houston in 1996 because of her fiancé’s job and then began searching for a job in health care. She wanted to work for MD Anderson and describes the advantages of working for an institution with a single mission. She explains that MD Anderson was hiring college graduates to serve as Patient Service Coordinators (PSC). She explains the reasons why this role was being transformed and also recalls the period of change under John Mendelsohn [Oral History Interview] (who assumed presidency of the institution in ’96). She was hired to serve as PSC in the Department of Radiation Oncology. She explains why the job was difficult and her strategy of never saying ‘No, it’s not my job’ in order to advance. She describes her responsibilities as a PSC, noting that her early negotiation skills came from this period.
Identifier
HayAC_01_20150204_C02
Publication Date
2-4-2015
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Amy Carpenter Hay, Oral History Interview, February 04, 2015
Topics Covered
The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center - Institutional Change; Joining MD Anderson; Professional Path; Overview; Definitions, Explanations, Translations; Patients; Cancer and Disease; This is MD Anderson; Evolution of Career; Leadership; Mentoring; The History of Health Care, Patient Care; Research, Care, and Education; The Business of MD Anderson; Growth and/or Change; Institutional Processes
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, tell me about the move from college, then, to your first position.
Amy Carpenter Hay:
So, that is probably a little bit more personal than work, in that my—I was dating a young man at Southwestern. He was older than I. And he was in the oil and gas field. And he came to Houston for a job before I graduated. So, he asked me to marry him in the middle of my senior year, so he was already set and established. So, I came to Houston. Quite frankly, as I suggested, while my college was, I believe, educationally, extremely sound, it was not necessarily focused on finding a job getting out. So, with a psychology and history degree with a minor in education, it left a lot of, you know, question on what I was gonna do. So, I came to Houston, and to be quite frank, looked around the healthcare sphere. Obviously, you know, that’s one reason why we live in Houston. It’s just a mecca for healthcare, and good organizations.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
So you did end up marrying that young man? [laughs]
Amy Carpenter Hay:
I did. I did marry him.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And his name is?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
His name is Cullen Hay. And I did marry him. I’m sure there’s days where he wished that was not the case. [laughter]
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Well, it probably [inaudible].
Amy Carpenter Hay:
But, so, you know, quite frankly, I came in. I did a full review of all the healthcare entities in Houston. And it was very clear to me that I wanted to work for MD Anderson. The idea of working for an institution with one mission is something I still talk to people about. I don’t think most people have the opportunity or understand how special that is. We have on mission. It’s very clear. I don’t have to worry about balancing cardiology and oncology and acute care. I have one mission. And so, I started applying to MD Anderson. Quite frankly, was having a really hard time getting in. You probably hear that often. It’s hard to get in, but once you do, it’s hard to leave. And at the time, one of my early mentors here—her name was Sherry [Sharon] Martin—I met her. And you—she might have been someone that you’ve run across before. She was doing a brand-new program at Anderson in which she was hiring college graduates to fill a role—a new role. And they were calling it a patient service coordinator—a PSC. To be quite frank, it was really a glorified receptionist who scheduled appointments. But they were trying to get in a new group of people. They were trying to change the old paradigm of it being kind of a secretary role. And so, they went out and hired a group of people straight out of college with, you know, bachelor’s prepared. And they trained us. And we were supposed to go out and change this role, and really make it impactful, and work with the doctors more one on one, and work with the patients, and really change kind of the model out there.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Now what was the rationale for changing the model in that particular way?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
I think it was twofold. The first fold was that MD Anderson had just, at that time, gone through a series of layoffs. It was, financially, not a great time for us. So, they had this golden opportunity to really look at how we were providing patient are on that more administrative side and make some changes. The second was that patient care was getting much more complicated. The scheduling of patients was not as easy as it used to be. It used to be more simple. You know, DI [Department of Diagnostic Imaging] would schedule their own images. And, you know, other centers would schedule their own things. Well, the paradigm was changing in that when a patient came into a clinic, the doctor would order a series of scans, tests, whatever the case may be. And one PSC, or clerk for other terminology, would schedule all of that. So this individual had to understand how to schedule everything from an MRI to a blood draw to a consult with psychiatry. All of that sounds fairly easy, but with our systems here it’s far from easy. You have to know, for example, that in order to schedule a CT [computed tomography] you have to first order a BUN [blood urea nitrogen] and creatinine, and you need two hours in order for those results to come back or they won’t schedule—they won’t see the patient. So, they were kind of training this new line of staff who had a little bit of an educational background and could really understand the components of oncology. While clearly not physicians or nurses, had enough background where they could logically really coordinate schedules for patients, and be that frontline for patients. So instead of just being someone behind the closed doors who is scheduling, really be up in front. You know, “Hello, Mrs. Smith. I know you need a CT. I need to get you a BUN and creatinine. How do—can you come in tomorrow? Or is next week better?” So, more of that interchange. So, I think those two factures—factors really bled into making some changes on the clinical side.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Just a little note on context: now, was this plan—’cause John Mendelsohn was new president in ’96. Was this new plan conceived under him, or was this held over from the previous administration under Charles LeMaistre?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
This was the end of Dr. LeMaistre’s presidency. So, interestingly enough, my first day on the job was the first day of Dr. Mendelsohn on the job. So, on my first day, I went to Hickey Auditorium and sat and listened to his vision, which I always tell people, it gives me an interesting perspective, because I didn’t know anything under LeMaistre. And so, I didn’t get the change in presidents that a lot of people felt. Now I’ve experienced it now from Mendelsohn to [Ronald] DePinho. But—so it was an interesting time. You know, there was a lot of things changing. I was—I was new and young and probably didn’t appreciate all that was changing at the time. But it gave me a great opportunity to jump in and get involved. So, as I went through the training for that and started that fall of ’96, I was assigned to the Division of Radiation Oncology. I was assigned as a PSC there. I immediately started working in the section of Head and Neck Radiation Oncology. And, you know, it’s interesting. Back then, the rule was you had to work in one spot for six months before you could transfer. And I had very high aspirations. I was—wanted to do this job and do it well, but only for six months, and then I wanted the next job. And I had already started, you know, trying to figure out where my best fit was. I went to work every day, and some of the good advice that my father gave me was get up every day. Get dressed up. Present yourself. Never say no to anything. And just use this. Even if it’s picking up the bathroom, go pick up the bathroom. If it’s going to help a patient, go help a patient. And I will say, it was—it was a difficult six months. It—that—I th—that role, coming from a very idealistic college grad, was hard. It was scheduling patients and answering phones, which is not what I thought I would be doing when I got out of college. That’s why I went to college. But probably some of the most influential time as a young adult, because I did exactly as my father suggested. I got up every morning, and while the other clerks and so forth would wear scrubs or, you know, be very casual, I wore a suit every single day.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
They always say dress for the job you want, not the job you have. [laughter]
Amy Carpenter Hay:
Exactly. I did, every day. I would—and I got known very, very quickly by those doctors, that they could ask me to do anything, because if I didn’t know the answer, I’d just figure it out. And my answer was never, “It’s not my job.” And that’s something still, oftentimes, we struggle with here. And I’ve kind of—I joke with people and say that I feel like sometimes I’ve made my whole career on never saying, “It’s not my job.” Always just saying yes, and then figuring it out. Because there’s nothing around here that you can’t figure out. There’s always someone that knows the answer, or some method to do it. But the answer is always, “Yes, yes, I can that. Yes, I would be happy to do that.” And I did that for six months. Made some incredible relationships. One of the men I do truly hope you interviewed was Dr. Kian Ang. He became a mentor and has passed away since. But a fantastic man—really influential radiation oncologist around the world. But as that six-month clock came ticking, I went to my boss at that time and I said, “You know, I’d really like to look for opportunities for me to expand my role.” And I—at the time, I found this very deflating. Now I understand much better. She said, “No, your role is a PSC. If you’d like to stay, great. And if not, that’s fine.” And I was very surprised by that, at the time. And so, I ended up leaving. (phone rings) I realized that I was gonna have to make that next step. And it was at that time that I was introduced to a wonderful woman by the name of Leslie Bean. And at the time, Leslie was the head of Patient Advocacy at MD Anderson. One of the most compassionate, wonderful, committed women, again, around here. And I went to her, and I talked to her about who I was and what I wanted to do and ended up taking a position as a patient advocate. This gave me a great opportunity to leverage everything I had just learned on the clinical side. I had been in the trenches. I had worked with doctors and patients and nurses, and really enjoyed it. But this role had me meeting with patients. And, at the time, we met with every patient that came in as a new patient. I’m not sure that’s possible anymore, but it was a little smaller back then. And if they had problems, we were there to really help them work through them, to listen.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What kind of—I’m sorry.
Amy Carpenter Hay:
Mm-hmm?
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
What kind of problems would you address?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
Really, anything at all. We were there as the patient advocate, so, you know, everything from, “I’m not happy with my appointment time,” to, “I’m not happy with my doctor.” And working through those issues. Not just the patients but their families, often. I covered two areas in patient advocacy. I covered Head and Neck, which was very easy ’cause I understood it now. And I also covered Pediatrics, which was much more complex because the issues that you deal with are most often family issues, and complicated, and tough.
Recommended Citation
Hay, Amy Carpenter and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 02: A New Role at MD Anderson Reflects Changes in Health Care" (2015). Interview Chapters. 951.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/951
Conditions Governing Access
Open
