Chapter 13: Dr. Ronald DePinho and Institutional Change
Files
Loading...
Description
Ms. Hay comments on the early years of Dr. Ronald DePinho’s leadership of MD Anderson. She notes his emphasis on the “democratization of cancer.” In response to a question about criticisms of his approach from MD Anderson faculty, she says that the value of partnerships is now being demonstrated. She comments on all institutional change being a difficult, particularly in medical institutions, which are traditionally conservative.
Identifier
HayAC_02_20150602_C13
Publication Date
6-2-2015
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Topics Covered
The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center - Institutional Change; Growth and/or Change; Institutional Politics; Controversy; Understanding the Institution; On the Nature of Institutions
Transcript
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Now you mentioned things changed when Dr. DePinho came into the institution. Tell me about that, kind of, benchmark event.
Amy Carpenter Hay:
Well, I mean, I think the benchmark event was, you know, after he took time the first year to understand the organization fully, I think that his vision is one in which there is a large emphasis on the democratization of cancer. Meaning how do we push out our knowledge both nationally and internationally in a way that’s impactful? So, we often say that, you know, right now, today, as we sit here, we treated 35,000 new cancer cases at Main Campus. We treated four in our regional c—4,000 in our regional system. And we treated another 35,000 across our network. So, it’s about impact, and knowledge sharing on oncology, from screening and prevention to treatment to survivorship. So, a big push on thinking externally on how we can push out our knowledge.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Mm-hmm. Now, I’ve talked to a lot of people, you know, because I’ve been interviewing through the period of Dr. DePinho’s—when Dr. DePinho arrived, and, you know, going through a lot of cultural change at MD Anderson, and some turbulence and criticism. So, what’s your view of—how do you respond to some of the questions about growth, and the questions about the value of spreading MD Anderson quite this widely, and expansion and proliferation of function rather than focus on a much narrower band of what MD Anderson traditionally has done well?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
Well, I mean, what I would say is, I think any knowledgeable researcher would tell you that we’re not gonna cure cancer sitting in Houston, Texas. If we are gonna make an impact, it has to be a global impact. And that requires MD Anderson to have not only a clinical presence, but an ability to conduct research on a worldwide basis. The world we live in is not one location. That’s, I would suggest, small thinking that’s not gonna lead to any sort of innovation.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Mm-hmm. What are some examples of kind of the positive outcomes of creating these wide partnerships?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
I mean, I think the examples are, first and foremost, impact on patient lives. We’ve made significant impact in our partner memberships. We’ve done so internationally. We’ve changed the level of care being provided across the board. I think research would—is the second impact, in that we have been able to push out and accrue patients in not only higher volumes, but in a much more meaningful way. And third, really goes back to the disparities in healthcare. If MD Anderson, as the leader of oncology, is not supposed to be eliminating those disparities, then my question would be, who is supposed to be?
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
And when you’re talking about disparities, what are you referring to there?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
Disparities in healthcare, as cited by the IOM [Institute of Medicine] report, is the clear acknowledgement, both nationally and internationally, that all patients don’t have the ability to access high-level oncology care. The IOM is the Institute of Medicine, and they have done, you know, a fantastic review, and continued documentation of the fact that most Americans—not even looking globally—don’t have access to the highest-level oncology care, and they should. So, part of our mission, I would suggest, is to ensure that we democratize the knowledge and expertise we have in order to eliminate these disparities.
Tacey Ann Rosolowski, PhD:
Mm-hmm. Do you think the—your perspective—I’m just curious about whether your perspective of Dr. DePinho and some of the individuals who’ve been brought into MD Anderson more recently, kind of represent, I don’t know, a boundary between an old guard, a new guard—you know, a sort of big change in the institution and its perspective. Because I’m always thinking about, you know, well, where is this institution in its path from past to future, you know? And is it, at MD Anderson today, a little different than it was five years ago, ten years ago, because of this thinking?
Amy Carpenter Hay:
I think it’s different every year. It has to be. I mean, if you’re standing still, you’re moving backwards. So, it has to be evolving. I mean, that’s—that is part of medicine. It’s part of research. It’s part of the global civilization. So, it absolutely moves, and if we were behaving the way that we were five years ago, we would not be the number-one cancer center in the world. Quite frankly, next year, if we’re behaving the way we are today, we won’t be the number-one cancer center in the world. We have to be constantly thinking of what’s three steps forward, not keeping stagnant. And so, that does create changes, and change is hard. And it’s especially hard in an environment in the United States where the medical community is fairly resistant to change. Doctors who went to med school twenty years ago didn’t sign up for this. They didn’t sign up for changes in how we’re paid. They didn’t sign up for electronic-medical-record requirements. They didn’t sign up for fighting insurance. They signed up to treat patients, which is admirable and fantastic. But that’s not in the world in which we live in today. I would actually even go further and say that most physicians at MD Anderson that have never left MD Anderson don’t realize how fortunate we are. We have access to resource s that no one in the world does. We have access to not only financial resources but staffing and equipment resources that most doctors around the United States will never have the opportunity to provide for their patients. So, yes, is there pain in change? Absolutely. But without it, we would be moving backwards.
Recommended Citation
Hay, Amy Carpenter and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 13: Dr. Ronald DePinho and Institutional Change" (2015). Interview Chapters. 962.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/962
Conditions Governing Access
Open
