Chapter 08: An MA in Counseling to Develop Expertise
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Description
Dr. Holleman explains that he “found himself” when he began his master’s program [M.A., 1996, Marriage and Family Therapy] in counseling at the University of Houston -Clear Lake. He explains how earning credentials in counseling altered his roles at Baylor Collect of Medicine, where he became an Associate Professor in Family and Community Medicine [1998] and founded the Baylor-Star of Hope Center for Counseling [1998] in addition to fulfilling his previous roles.
He notes that the Department of Family and Community Medicine developed an expertise in psychosocial medicine because of the vision of the chair at the time, Robert Rakle.
Identifier
HollemanWL_01_20170412_C08
Publication Date
4-12-2017
City
Houston, Texas
Interview Session
Warren L. Holleman, PhD, Oral History Interview, April 12, 2017
Topics Covered
The Interview Subject's Story - Professional Path; Professional Path; Inspirations to Practice Science/Medicine; Influences from People and Life Experiences; The Clinician; Professional Values, Ethics, Purpose; Formative Experiences; Evolution of Career; Professional Practice; The Professional at Work
Transcript
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So you—let's see, you did the MA in Marriage and Family Therapy. You got that in '96, and that was at Clearlake? You were at Clearlake?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Yes. So I was working at Baylor and working in this Homeless Center. I think that started in 1990 or '91. Then I would go—mostly the classes were at night at Clearlake.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, you said that opened up a whole new world for you. Did you mean intellectually, or more in terms of—you're nodding, so... (laughs)
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
I think I really found myself there.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Huh.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
I'd say that in the Medical Humanities work, with the med students, I kind of found myself there. But in healthcare, if you have some type of healthcare clinical degree, you just feel a little more an interior part of the system. I just became more part of a clinic. And in community health, I think, yeah, I could not have functioned in community health very well without that training. And of course, homeless—what I discovered was, the number one mental illness among homeless people is depression. Most people think it's schizophrenia. But schizophrenia is more florid and more visible. But the hidden depression is everywhere. So as a family therapist, I had the skills to help with that, you know, in conjunction with psychiatrists. So I could help people who were depressed. That was probably the lead—that was the leading reason that men became homeless, in my experience. That they then might turn to alcohol and drugs as well, but depression was at the root. With women, it was usually family violence. I mean, I hate to generalize, but those were the most common things. Again, because of my mother's horrible background in terms of her childhood and everything, I felt I had some comfort in working with that, too. So working with homeless people was a really good fit for me, community health in general.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
How long did you do that work?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
I think I was at the SEARCH Center for about eight years, usually two to four half-days a week. Then after that, I started a new clinic, a counseling center at Star of Hope Transitional Living Center for Women and Families. So that, the focus of that was—the SEARCH Center Clinic was one-stop shopping. That was medical, psychological, social work, drug counseling, nursing, dental, psychiatry—everything. The focus at Star of Hope was psychological services. That was women and children, primarily. They were all coming from situations involving domestic violence, childhood abuse, that kind of thing.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Now, were you also—what were you doing on those other half-days?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
I was teaching the medical students the Medical Humanities curriculum. I was working with the residents in terms of—actually, no longer the home visits. But I was still teaching Ethics, Primary Care Ethics to the residents. I would teach a monthly ethics conference. I would do what we call "tandem supervision," where I would supervise the residents in their clinics in tandem with an MD. And the MD—they'd consult with the MD with their medical questions. They'd consult with me with psychology questions, communication questions. How do I broach the subject with the patient? I would literally follow them into the room a lot of times. Other times I'd watch them on a video monitor. Other times, we wouldn't watch, but they'd just come to us for questions.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
So did the MA, which gave you kind of a deeper grounding in the theory of communications, that must have—did that have an influence on your roles working with the residents? Was that formally recognized by your department that, oh, now Dr. Holleman can do X because of the MA?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Oh, yes.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. Mm-hmm.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
It expanded my skillset for sure. I felt more—before that, I sort of felt I was practicing medicine without a license, because in a homeless shelter, if there wasn't anybody there to help them, I would try. But I knew that wasn't ideal. So once I got that degree, I could now teach psychology to the residents. Because of the clinical work I was doing, I really did—I think for a while there, I really had a pretty strong knowledge of how to treat certain types of mental illness. But in the context of family medicine, I also developed some expertise in how to address psychosocial issues in the context of a medical visit. Like, they come with a sore throat, but the basic question after you treat the sore throat is, "You've had a sore throat before. Why did you come today?" Almost always, there's some other issue.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Right. Right. Absolutely.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
So that was one of the things—I was just a small part of this. But the department I was in at the time developed a real expertise in psychosocial medicine. That was pretty exciting.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Was that unusual at the time, that a department was doing that?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Yeah. At the time, the model that most people use was what we call the "biomedical model." And we tried to promote what we called the "biopsychosocial model."
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Interesting.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
And it was a part of the national movement to do that in primary care, especially. In the primary care specialties. But we were part of that. Baylor Family Medicine had several psychologists on faculty.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Okay. I was going to ask you why you thought that department was particularly quick to embrace it?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Our chair at the time, that was his—I'm not sure why, but he really embraced that and promoted it. He wanted that to be kind of his special emphasis.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Interesting. Who was that?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Robert Rakel.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I'm sorry, the last name again?
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
R-A-K-E-L, Rakel.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh okay, Rakel.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
His son, he's still around, but he's retired. But his son, David, actually has become a leader in integrative medicine.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Oh wow, okay. Well, wow.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
So it's kind of expanded. Yeah.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm just noticing, it's 20 after 11:00, so I know you have to run to your next commitment. But I wanted to thank you for chatting today.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Yeah. This wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. (laughs)
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
I told you, trust the process. (laughs)
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Thanks.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Sure thing.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
You're good. Very good. You made me feel comfortable. I don't know if this—telling all these personal stories, I don't know if that's really what you wanted.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Yeah. Yeah.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Okay. Because I love telling them. My kids are getting old enough, they might listen sometimes now. But by and large, you know, you said, why don't I tell that story in my lectures. I think I told about B. I think I did tell that maybe when I first got here. And I was shocked that it didn’t just totally resonate with everybody. Or maybe I just didn't pick up on it.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Or maybe they didn't know how to react.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Yeah.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
Let me just do my closing off here—
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
I'm sorry.
Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:
No, that's fine. I just wanted to say for the record that I'm turning off the recorder at 21 minutes after 11:00. Thanks again.
Warren L. Holleman, PhD:
Yeah.
Recommended Citation
Holleman, Warren L. PhD and Rosolowski, Tacey A. PhD, "Chapter 08: An MA in Counseling to Develop Expertise" (2017). Interview Chapters. 1082.
https://openworks.mdanderson.org/mchv_interviewchapters/1082
Conditions Governing Access
Open
