Chapter 09: Time for a Change in Work Scene

Chapter 09: Time for a Change in Work Scene

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Description

In this chapter, Dr. Holleman explains decisions that led to him taking the job of Director of the Faculty and Health and Wellness Program at MD Anderson. He first summarizes the roles he was serving at Baylor College of Medicine in the 2000s, then explains why he quit that job in 2007.

Next he explains how he had become acquainted with staff in MD Anderson’s faculty health program through collaborations with the “Compassion and the Art of Medicine” series he established. He talks about his reasons for taking the position at MD Anderson, including his interest in seeing the differences between working with homeless individuals and physicians. He explains how he discovered it was actually easier to work with the homeless.

Identifier

HollemanWL_02_20170420_C09

Publication Date

4-20-2017

City

Houston, Texas

Topics Covered

The Interview Subject's Story - Joining MD Anderson/Coming to Texas; Personal Background; Joining MD Anderson/Coming to Texas; MD Anderson Culture; Working Environment; The Administrator

Transcript

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

It is 20 minutes of 10:00 on the 20th of April, 2017. And I'm sitting in the Reading Room of the Historical Resources Center for my second session with Dr. Warren Holleman. So thank you so much for coming in.

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Thank you for having me again.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

I'm glad to resume our conversation. And as we were strategizing a little bit beforehand, we ended up last session with you talking about getting your masters, and how that changed your role at Baylor. And we've got quite a long period to cover between that and starting at MD Anderson. So I thought maybe you could focus in on what were some of the activities that you undertook during that period that you feel really put you on track for the job here, because it is a slightly different focus. So how did that all happen during that period, if you will?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Sure. So at Baylor, once I got my clinical license as a family therapist, I sort of expanded my skillset and my experiences. I was now working in a clinical capacity as a counselor in our community clinics. I was also doing psychosocial supervision of our family practice residents in mostly our community clinics as well. And I was working as a clinic administrator of two different community clinics over those years, primarily with homeless patients, both street homeless in one and women and families in another. Women and children in another. So I was exposed to—oh, and then the other thing I did was to work with medical students, primarily in teaching Medical Humanities courses to them. So I would say the things that I did that particularly prepared me to come to MD Anderson were that when I worked with family prac—I worked very closely with family practice residents. I would follow them for a half day at a time, go with them to see their patients, and I got a feel for both the clinical challenges they faced, and then the personal challenges, being young physicians trying to juggle their young families with their work, and that kind of thing. Medical students—the same type of thing. I got to know them and they were trying to form a career identity, but also develop a personal identity and a family life, and that kind of thing. So when I did come to MD Anderson, I think that that was good preparation, to work with MD Anderson faculty on some of the same issues.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

I mean, I'm struck with how you were really looking at the whole person. You always seemed to be concerned about that, about the whole person.

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Yeah. I've had a very fortunate career, in that I've been able to do some of these things I consider fun things and look at kind of the big picture, sort of what they used to call a "renaissance approach" to things. Then on top of all that, I had a lot of experience counseling people with mental illness and with relationship issues. So when I talked to our faculty here in that role, I think I feel confident that I can identify the problem, and either help them address it, or get them to someone who can.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

So tell me about the process of coming to this position in 2010. When did you start thinking, oh, I want to make a move? And why did that happen?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Looking back, there were a couple of things that happened. One was that around 2007 or maybe '08, I quit my job at Baylor. I don't know if I told you that.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

No! (laughs)

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

So my mother was in North Carolina, and she was becoming more frail, I guess, or more—she needed more help than she had in the past. She was an extremely independent woman, and she insisted on being at home and being as independent as possible. But it helped that I could—I was going there a lot. And I finally got tired of juggling my job and that. So I had gone to part-time in my job for a while, then I just quit the job entirely. Secondly, at the time, I wanted to finish a book I had started 35 years earlier on the history of my hometown with my brother. So going to North Carolina, spending time with my mom, also gave me a chance to work on that book. Thirdly, I just needed a break from—I think I had a pretty intense time of, especially, clinical activity. Counseling is a profession that I've found very rewarding. But after a few years of it, I needed a break.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

It's got pretty high burnout rates, doesn't it?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Yeah.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Is that what you were—were you experiencing that, or—?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

I can't remember. I think I was going to experience it if I didn't make a change. I think that was pro—I don't remember—I have experienced burnout in my career. I probably was more in the situation of knowing that if I kept it up much longer, I would be in that situation. The other thing was, my wife and I had made an agreement when we first had children that we would take turns working part-time, because we just couldn't handle—we couldn't both work full-time and take care of the kids. We didn't have the energy for that. So we're not good multi-taskers, like some people. I was in a period of working part-time anyway. And by this time, I think our last child had gone off to college, but I kind of loved working part-time and having a chance to do other things.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

What are your kids' names?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Annie and Tom. Nice, old-fashioned names.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

So tell me how that period evolved, and what led you back to MD Anderson? Or, to MD Anderson?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

Yeah. So I had been running a program at Baylor called Compassion in the Art of Medicine. And one of the things we did to leverage our resources was to collaborate with other institutions to bring speakers in. We could afford more speakers if we collaborated. And one of the groups we had collaborated with was the Faculty Health Program at MD Anderson. MD Anderson at the time had what they called "Stressbuster Programs." So we had collaborated for three or four years on one program a year. And so I got to know Janis Apted, who's now Janis Apted Yadiny, who was the director of Faculty Development, and Katrina Allen, who is now Katrina Wright, who was the program manager for Faculty Health. So when they had an opening in this position, they asked if I would be interested in applying for it. And I had been on my own for a couple of years, not working. And I was ready to come back and try something new.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

Okay. So that was 2010. Was it a big deal going back to work full-time?

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

It was a deal. A medium deal.

Tacey A. Rosolowski, PhD:

A medium deal. (laughs)

Warren L. Holleman, PhD:

I had really enjoyed my freedom. I enjoyed being, quote, "a writer," and having that freedom. There was no income involved, but I was very fortunate. My wife was providing our income. On the other hand—I said this kind of as a joke at the time, but I was also serious. I wanted to see the difference between working with the homeless population and working with a population of physicians. And as it turned out, the homeless people were a lot easier to work with, in some ways. They were a lot more available. In our clinic, they almost always made their appointments, believe it or not, and the ones who came in were really—it was a very rewarding experience, because they knew they had problems, and there would be progress. With physicians, the challenge was, they were so busy. Just catching them for more than 10 minutes at a time was a challenge. And I don't see that as them being, quote, "non-compliant," I see that as just part of what being a physician these days is. It's just working all the time. And if they do have mental health problems, or just career challenges that they would like to talk about with someone, it's not that easy for them to block—for some of them to be able to block out time to talk about them.

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Chapter 09: Time for a Change in Work Scene

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